Trolling

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by zenki_levin

I know what trolling is.

I was re-confirming for noobs.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

also, never underestimate the power of the napkin

This is the most awesome post EVER! adding to my signature its so cool!

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

2forme is not offensive
sometimes we misread eachother, but I think its good he is here and folks like him ,and me, are here

counterpoint is good
argue is good
moderation bad

we all troll, it happens, its not conscious, its sometimes how we go about trying to get what information we are after, sometimes its how we tell folks theyre wrong, or maybe just stupid too as can be the case

2forme is as guilty of it as me, but I dont think anyone here Trolls to just be a troll, perception is not reality so what one guy calls trolling may not be, the problem on this forum is the mods are too active, they are there whenever someone cries wulf or help

its lame

frankly I prefer a forum with less moderation. Most of the times, folks will work it out, but when a mod steps in it messes up that organicness of being able to work it out

.. hey, we all want answers and sometimes folks come across strong or strung out or whatever, its the interweb's fault

trolling is part of EVERY forum, sure when folks are cussing and making personal remarks, it may need moderation, but I find folks crying MOD all too often, and it makes the mods feel like they can do what they have to, if they dont have faith that a user will come correct, thats when they step in

I suggest that he mods let the players and relationships in this community evolve. its not kindergarden and I dont cry teacher myself. We're not all here to be liked, some of us are just here. I could care less if you like my posts. I could care less if you like me. I'm just not here to hurt of offend anyone, and my motivation is to share my hobby with folks who also love this car, that is ALL

grow up and out of this "report trolling" mindset

bunch of over emotional grown men complaining that some guys words hurted him is just unbecoming from where I sit
gain some strategy and deal with it like humans

DOWN with over-moderation! Trolls end up self isolating on their own, so let them do their thing!

I speak far more freely on other forums where I am an active member. ITs not cool that here the mods have had a history of banning with permanence, and in my opinion, if you treat members like children, they will act like children

this aint day care

its a testosterone filled car forum, like all the others

Care to tell me the DETAIL about which MODS have banned you, gmookher? I don't remember ANY MODS that banned you. It's Hachi, don't point finger at us, Mods. iirc you're banned for cause HUGE commotion in the FI section & got warned by Hachi, but still went on making commotions. Should we bring this up again? Or should we get more detail info from Hachi?

Several correction:
1. Yes, grow up & take few trolls... but TO CERTAIN LIMIT!
2. Mods & Admins doesn't come EVERY FREAKING troll posts & delete em. When it gets OUT OF HAND & REPORT IT, that's when we come in & delete troll/pointless/offensive posts.
3. Yes, this ain't day care, so act like adult.

[White64Goat]

Originally Posted by zenki_levin

I know what trolling is.

Isn't that when you're sittin on the back of the boat with your fishin rod, lettin the current take you where it wants and you're chummin, just tryin to catch that big azz shark?

[whaap]

Originally Posted by White64Goat

Isn't that when you're sittin on the back of the boat with your fishin rod, lettin the current take you where it wants and you're chummin, just tryin to catch that big azz shark?

LOL. Probably most, if not all of us, have gone fishing at one time or another and none of us have ever caught all the fish in the lake.

[norsamerican]

[Huehuecoyotl]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Care to tell me the DETAIL about which MODS have banned you, gmookher? I don't remember ANY MODS that banned you. It's Hachi, don't point finger at us, Mods. iirc you're banned for cause HUGE commotion in the FI section & got warned by Hachi, but still went on making commotions. Should we bring this up again? Or should we get more detail info from Hachi?

Several correction:
1. Yes, grow up & take few trolls... but TO CERTAIN LIMIT!
2. Mods & Admins doesn't come EVERY FREAKING troll posts & delete em. When it gets OUT OF HAND & REPORT IT, that's when we come in & delete troll/pointless/offensive posts.
3. Yes, this ain't day care, so act like adult.

ichi,

First thanks for the time you took to reply

Second, no offense meant your way, personally or at any moderator person in general, I'm speaking more towards the concept of moderation. In no way did I mean to group all moderators 'together', some are cooler than others
clearly there are differences in how each mod moderates,

and clearly Third, Hachi/site owner has final say on who can say what and where, as should be the case

clearly things have been getting better around here, I think the Mods have been a bit more relaxed, and most threads are in pretty good shape if you ask me, perhaps you agree?

Me, well, I admit I was getting a bit outta hand, and folks were indeed feeding that gmookher fire just the same and I took the bait, this is something I am more aware of now, but I noted while hachi warned and banned me, I dont think enough was done to prevent the folks who were feeding that fire, aside from myself-I dont know if they were addressed, or reprimanded. I wasnt aware of anyone else who fed the fire who got banned, just me.

How many hands does it take to clap?

A good thing to do, that I have seen on other forums, lets say memberA and member B are misbehaving. The mods could put BOTH members on a 1 week ban to cool off, that would have prevented gmookher from getting banned, if you ask me.

clearly as evidenced by my more recent post I can be a behaved and self moderated member of our community
the fact that you guys run this forum is GREAT
one model I suggets is letting the members donate to the site, this would make things feel less preferntial towards vendors, and allow the site owner to benefit being able to share operational costs with memebers. just think, if every registered member, ok even 50% donated $5, that could add up


So,I guess my point to you, ichi, in response to your post in hopes of making this a place we can all continue enjoy, with fewer people feeling butt hurt,

I think there should be CLEAR CUT rules posted on what SPECIFICALLY makes a post eligible for banning, what if any remarks and language is NOT allowed and what WONT be tolerated.

I also think there should be several warnings, like a 3 strike policy, then, you should have folks get banned just long enough to cool off.
Then three cool off bans before youre even warned for a last and final permanent ban
None of us are here with ill intentions, this we all know.

We're all human, sometimes posts work us up, sometimes it stuff in our personal life.
but calling someone a TROLL or e-bully is NOT name calling
however calling someone an a-hole, d or other profanity, terms like "gay" "looser" "moron" those are names. I dont think calling out someone for being a troll, should let the person calling it next be subject to being accused of name calling. there needs to be limits to how much protection folks get. Just asking for help doesnt mean its warranted.

Permanent banning is rough. I for one miss my old account, posts, mail etc, and wish that since I am behaving now, 543 posts and counting, that there was some way to appeal to you guys, say I am sorry and put it behind us, and have my accounts merged or something. I'm sure most of you see I have a strong affinity for our car, and that truly is what should be the common denominator that unites us. We need to be able to accept difference sin point of view. I feel like I can not speak against turbo systems, Or i will be banned. I feel I can not be candid about where stuff is made, or what I read in the news, in fear a vendor may complain that my post is hurting their sales. Where is the line? What cant I say? where is it written? I'm a 86 owner, twice now, and think I'm not here to hurt any one, company or system, actually. I want to feel safe too, like other members. I want to feel good about coming here and sharing my joys, and also want to feel I can speak against a member or vendor, of course with respect, but at present, thats not the case. Members remind me, as if to threaten me, that they can have me banned again, just by complaining. Sometimes those members may be mods, too. Atleast thats how I feel.

Maybe folks think I am a troll, I dont know, maybe I should care more, but what I know is I dont TRY to troll. if I do it, its something I do without intent. Some may consider this post a troll post, it is not, it is me speaking from my heart.

I'm glad you guys are letting me hang about again, and hopefully you see great commotion is often over nothing, as was the doubt regarding my recent dyno post.

The fact that there was commotion wasnt 100% my fault, atleast thats how I feel, it takes two hands to clap.









@ichitaka05 @2forme @Calum @MANDALAY (where did he go?) @Sonolin MODS, MEMBERS, and others. I'd love to hear your feedback, regarding community developed policies, maybe we can all come up with ways to make this more organized and less chaotic an experience for both the uber experienced seniors and noobs alike? Not trying to start a commotion, rather would like to see if we can all synergize to keep the friggn peace 'round here. Should there be a vote? Can there be a board made of mods and members? Can I be on it?

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

ichi,

First thanks for the time you took to reply

Second, no offense meant your way, personally or at any moderator person in general, I'm speaking more towards the concept of moderation. In no way did I mean to group all moderators 'together', some are cooler than others
clearly there are differences in how each mod moderates,

and clearly Third, Hachi/site owner has final say on who can say what and where, as should be the case

clearly things have been getting better around here, I think the Mods have been a bit more relaxed, and most threads are in pretty good shape if you ask me, perhaps you agree?

Me, well, I admit I was getting a bit outta hand, and folks were indeed feeding that gmookher fire just the same and I took the bait, this is something I am more aware of now, but I noted while hachi warned and banned me, I dont think enough was done to prevent the folks who were feeding that fire, aside from myself-I dont know if they were addressed, or reprimanded. I wasnt aware of anyone else who fed the fire who got banned, just me.

How many hands does it take to clap?

A good thing to do, that I have seen on other forums, lets say memberA and member B are misbehaving. The mods could put BOTH members on a 1 week ban to cool off, that would have prevented gmookher from getting banned, if you ask me.

clearly as evidenced by my more recent post I can be a behaved and self moderated member of our community
the fact that you guys run this forum is GREAT
one model I suggets is letting the members donate to the site, this would make things feel less preferntial towards vendors, and allow the site owner to benefit being able to share operational costs with memebers. just think, if every registered member, ok even 50% donated $5, that could add up


So,I guess my point to you, ichi, in response to your post in hopes of making this a place we can all continue enjoy, with fewer people feeling butt hurt,

I think there should be CLEAR CUT rules posted on what SPECIFICALLY makes a post eligible for banning, what if any remarks and language is NOT allowed and what WONT be tolerated.

I also think there should be several warnings, like a 3 strike policy, then, you should have folks get banned just long enough to cool off.
Then three cool off bans before youre even warned for a last and final permanent ban
None of us are here with ill intentions, this we all know.

We're all human, sometimes posts work us up, sometimes it stuff in our personal life.
but calling someone a TROLL or e-bully is NOT name calling
however calling someone an a-hole, d or other profanity, terms like "gay" "looser" "moron" those are names. I dont think calling out someone for being a troll, should let the person calling it next be subject to being accused of name calling. there needs to be limits to how much protection folks get. Just asking for help doesnt mean its warranted.

Permanent banning is rough. I for one miss my old account, posts, mail etc, and wish that since I am behaving now, 543 posts and counting, that there was some way to appeal to you guys, say I am sorry and put it behind us, and have my accounts merged or something. I'm sure most of you see I have a strong affinity for our car, and that truly is what should be the common denominator that unites us. We need to be able to accept difference sin point of view. I feel like I can not speak against turbo systems, Or i will be banned. I feel I can not be candid about where stuff is made, or what I read in the news, in fear a vendor may complain that my post is hurting their sales. Where is the line? What cant I say? where is it written? I'm a 86 owner, twice now, and think I'm not here to hurt any one, company or system, actually. I want to feel safe too, like other members. I want to feel good about coming here and sharing my joys, and also want to feel I can speak against a member or vendor, of course with respect, but at present, thats not the case. Members remind me, as if to threaten me, that they can have me banned again, just by complaining. Sometimes those members may be mods, too. Atleast thats how I feel.

Maybe folks think I am a troll, I dont know, maybe I should care more, but what I know is I dont TRY to troll. if I do it, its something I do without intent. Some may consider this post a troll post, it is not, it is me speaking from my heart.

I'm glad you guys are letting me hang about again, and hopefully you see great commotion is often over nothing, as was the doubt regarding my recent dyno post.

The fact that there was commotion wasnt 100% my fault, atleast thats how I feel, it takes two hands to clap.









@ichitaka05 @2forme @Calum @MANDALAY (where did he go?) @Sonolin MODS, MEMBERS, and others. I'd love to hear your feedback, regarding community developed policies, maybe we can all come up with ways to make this more organized and less chaotic an experience for both the uber experienced seniors and noobs alike? Not trying to start a commotion, rather would like to see if we can all synergize to keep the friggn peace 'round here. Should there be a vote? Can there be a board made of mods and members? Can I be on it?

I can only think of a certain vendor's dyno threads that stirred up more negative shit than your previous persona.

In my whole time here.

That's like a lot of shit stirring by one guy.

[ST185RC]

If you all think about it, OP is the real troll here. He rants and calls someone out and illicits emotionally driven arguments and he steps away.

The irony is that the one who complains about another member making a scene makes a new thread himself to get attention. Oh the ironing, make it stop.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

ichi,

Policies? We already have one. It's direct imo. Respectful. Disagree, don't argue. Help. Keep off-topic in off-topic section.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/announcement.php?f=2

This forum is made from members that enjoy FT-86 Concept w respect for each others & moderate each other. Isn't that enough? Cuz more policies we make it up, more up-tight it gets in the forum. If you want to chain members up, I can. I'm power hungry person, so I'll love to control members, see every member's move... but I don't think Hachi likes that idea & prob stop me from doing that.

[Calum]

Ok @Huehuecoyotl, I'll chime in. You might want to get a cup of tea though.

First I think it would be prudent to discuss why gmookher was banned as the rest will flow from that. Gem, I've never met anyone that could get under my skin and make me feel about three inches tall with so few words. And trust me when I say many have tried at all ages of my life. If you have any gift that I know of, it's that. I'm not going to go looking for examples because I've seen you brush them off, telling people to grow up. Not normally in so many words but you most certainly get your point across. On top of your personal insults, and they were personal to the people on the receiving end, there was your constant professional insults. Pretty well every post you made and your signature included veiled insults about other companies manufacturing placement choices, testing procedures, parts choices, or just their philosophy. You just couldn't let the competition do their thing without commenting on it.

With your writing style of double meanings and between the lines insults how could anyone tell you exactly where the line is drawn. The last time you skirted along the line, lobbing volleys with an efficiency any military force would envy. People like you are the exact reason that there can't be a definitive line.

You asked why you can't talk about where something is made. It's because you somehow twist a location from a fact to a political insult, without saying anything directly political or insulting. It was very clear that you thought anything made outside of your country was crap and considering this is a global community with many people being from some of the countries you mentioned... It was most surprising that you didn’t consider your audience. As for how you did what you did; it's the timing, the phrasing, the before and after that puts everything into context for the reader. But pulled apart for censorship it's almost all innocuous.

As for how much moderation should be used on these boards. First off, this board is privately owned so it really doesn't matter what we think. But I'll give my opinion. I personally like the amount of moderation I've seen here. I lost it on a guy once for asking what I thought was a VERY stupid question. I got a warning and I just avoid that section of the board now.

You mentioned your desire for self moderation, but you ignored the personal request for you to tame yourself. You ignored the pleas for you to reign in your posts. And finally you ignored people getting angry and telling you to stop your ways. Again, you are the perfect example of why that won’t work here. You also continue to ignore that if the mods had been more active, you would not be here now. They, without say a single word that I know of, let the community give you a second chance. You're over 500 posts into it so far. I'd say you've done well.

As for when to ban permanently, I respected the admins decision and supported it. You were, and had been for sometime, way WAY out of line.

You mentioned a fear of being banned again and people even threatening to get you banned. I don't support the superiority complex involved in people threatening but short of you having a taste of your own medicine by being on the pointy end of one of your own barrages, maybe this is the only way to get you to respect the other companies & people here. That's pretty harsh and disrespectful, but if that's the only thing that's kept you inline this second time around, then maybe it's warranted.

I've messaged you a few times recently, mainly to pass on something that didn't belong on the boards, but also as a peace offering. You have been acting as part of the community here and I respect that. I also respect the effort required to change. But each time I've messaged you I've had this voice in the back of my mind telling me that nothings changed, that you probably think even less of me for showing weakness by attempting to befriend you in some minimal way. That or you're just sitting behind your screen, typing and retyping a response until you find one that wont be insulting enough to get you banned. I know how ridiculous and paranoid that sounds. But just think for a minute about what people’s views of you must be if that's how people picture you.

If the fear of being banned again is the only thing keeping you inline then you have my pity. It really doesn't matter what your home life/town whatever was like. Here, in this place, you are expected to act and behave in a certain way, to conform to the global community. We value your input, but if the cost is what it was... well I think I've made that point.

Another point you made is that it takes two ... I agree and disagree. Yes people were firing back on both sides and everything spiraled out of hand. But outside of the threads that you've been in, and another related company, how many threads here have had anywhere near that much infighting? None that I know of. Might it be more accurate to say that it takes three hands to clap... ok the analogy doesn't hold up, but you seemed to embody a third side of the fight, in that you were a catalyst.

This isn't the place for naming names or digging up old arguments, so I'll just say this. I think a huge reason why things have worked out this well so far is that you've distanced yourself from a certain vendor on here. In all reality you saved them from a lot, or they let you be their scapegoat, I don't really know. Either way a fair chunk of the anger should have been directed to them, you were just so closely tied and vocal that you pulled it away from them.

Gem, a lot of this wall of text has been against you. I've tried to keep things in the past tense as I no longer feel the need to say these things to the present persona you're presenting. You asked the question, brought most of these things up and asked for my input, so here it is. I hope you also consider my actions of late or lack thereof in some cases before you respond to this.

[njccmd2002]

wow, welcome to the world wide web. GET it. World wide... everyone has their opinions. If you dont like the site of the people, want to make a better world, then start your own forum.

GT YR OWN. LOL....

a good troll, breaks the ice and makes things fun. lets hijack this tread and talk about __________. Everyone likes _________.

Just fill in the blank guys..

[2forme]

I personally think the term "troll" is abused here. It seems, to me, that anyone that questions the status quo, or puts up any type of counterpoint against another persons opinion, is considered a "troll" and verbally bashed to some degree by the people sharing that opinion.

I try my best not to insult people or belittle them. Instead, I ask questions that bring my point to light. For example, rather than say "Your dynos are BS", I would say "What have you done to your car to get 30 more whp above what everyone else gets?". It's a non-aggressive way to point out an observation or counterpoint without seeming like a douche. Also, there might be something to learn which could benefit you and everyone else.

Another potential problem is ones natural behavior to think their choice of products is superior, if only because they picked them. It's ok to celebrate your work on your vehicle, but we should attempt to keep the degree of fanboyism out of the realm of condescension. Rather than tell someone that their choice of FI is crap while yours is the best, celebrate that they even bothered to mod their car in the first place. Their needs or enjoyments might differ greatly from your own.

Lastly, be realistic. Don't try to make something out to be largely better than what it is. A difference between an "expert" and a "fanboy" is knowing both ends of the spectrum about a topic. Vendors and Salesmen will always over sell a product because they want your money first, and care about the community second. Keep that in mind. Just because they give you discounted/free stuff doesn't mean everyone else gets the same treatment, so their enthusiasm and opinion may differ.

As far as moderating is concerned. I've only had a run in with the mods once, and it was largely due to me losing my cool with someone who was very insulting. I stooped to their level, said something I probably could have worded better, and they warned me about it. Aside from that, I've never been contacted about anything else. That incident was in the audio forum, not the FI section for those wondering. I would like to let the Mods know that they are free PM me with any concerns they have in the future. I know they have their hands full as is, but it's a bit easier to understand their limits and such with something pro-active, as opposed to reactive. I don't actually see them post much on a day to day basis, so it's hard to gauge what kind of people they are.

[njccmd2002]

2forme u funny and this forum loves ya.