Questions and Discussion on Vortech Supercharging Systems

[msile]

I do not know Mandalay personally, but I do have a MR2 Turbo I restored from the ground up. I had followed many of his posts on the MR2 forum. I have learned a lot from him and he has always been helpful to forum members. We need people like him to always question status quo. How else will we improve as a community? Our loyalty should be to each other, not the vendors (i do not mean that we should treat them with disrespect).

[JordanInnovations]

Brian, I hope you don't mind me dropping in here, but I'd like to clear up a couple things. I got to install and play with one of these kits already and was impressed, and I see a lot of very interested people asking some educated questions!

Superchargers don't make boost pressure, they flow a measurable mass of air ~ that boost pressure that you read (and base all of your judgments on) is a measure of the restriction the engine places on the blower. I know people like to refer to pulley size and "how many psi it will make", but that doesn't make sense unless everyone's engines are identical (and I'd hope that the supercharger early adopters at least have an exhaust, and probably other breathing mods). Pounds per minute (lbs/min) or cubic feet per minute (CFM, brings air density into the mix, so not as relateable) are how you quantify a compressor.

All of Vortech's other maps are available here:
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...pressor%20maps , and I'm guessing the new maps (they just came out with this wheel and another T-trim billet wheel I believe) will be up fairly soon. Turbine speed isn't graphed on there, but knowing what kind of power these are making in this application, look around the 30-40lbs/min area and see how efficient you are at 1.5-2atm (10psi-14psi).

It shouldn't surprise you that a production kit from the largest aftermarket supercharger manufacturer left some performance on the table ~ Vortech kits have always been well engineered, low- to no-compromises systems for the everyman, not racer-only packages that eek out every drop of performance to the detriment of reliability, packaging, etc. That's why they have partner shops

As far as lubrication goes, the kit is self-lubricated, but still serviceable (doesn't require an oil line and drain, but you can still change the supercharger oil every 10k mi or whatever the suggested interval is). This is AWESOME, since you don't run into all the problem of "oil-less" turbines, but still get the install convenience of oil-less. For endurance racing guys I'd recommend an engine oil feed, but I'm curious where they draw the line - if the average trackday guy can run their internally lubricated setup with no issues I'll be smitten.

[WWEVOX]

Originally Posted by ZC6BRZ

When will CARB E.O. be granted?

Ditto. This is what interests me most about this kit.

[2forme]

I'm curious as to how this kit fits with the windshield washer resevoir...

[JP]

Is the pulley size required to get 7psi at 4000rpm 1.95"?

[MANDALAY]

Originally Posted by Tradewind

It would be interesting to see this data from all the producers - have the turbo kit manufacturers and other SC kit manufacturers listed all their data to the extent that Mandalay is requiring from Brian?

Second that.

[MANDALAY]

Originally Posted by WWEVOX

Ditto. This is what interests me most about this kit.

I think that has been answered and it was no.

[MANDALAY]

Originally Posted by JordanInnovations

Brian, I hope you don't mind me dropping in here, but I'd like to clear up a couple things. I got to install and play with one of these kits already and was impressed, and I see a lot of very interested people asking some educated questions!

Superchargers don't make boost pressure, they flow a measurable mass of air ~ that boost pressure that you read (and base all of your judgments on) is a measure of the restriction the engine places on the blower. I know people like to refer to pulley size and "how many psi it will make", but that doesn't make sense unless everyone's engines are identical (and I'd hope that the supercharger early adopters at least have an exhaust, and probably other breathing mods). Pounds per minute (lbs/min) or cubic feet per minute (CFM, brings air density into the mix, so not as relateable) are how you quantify a compressor.

All of Vortech's other maps are available here:
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...pressor%20maps , and I'm guessing the new maps (they just came out with this wheel and another T-trim billet wheel I believe) will be up fairly soon. Turbine speed isn't graphed on there, but knowing what kind of power these are making in this application, look around the 30-40lbs/min area and see how efficient you are at 1.5-2atm (10psi-14psi).

It shouldn't surprise you that a production kit from the largest aftermarket supercharger manufacturer left some performance on the table ~ Vortech kits have always been well engineered, low- to no-compromises systems for the everyman, not racer-only packages that eek out every drop of performance to the detriment of reliability, packaging, etc. That's why they have partner shops

As far as lubrication goes, the kit is self-lubricated, but still serviceable (doesn't require an oil line and drain, but you can still change the supercharger oil every 10k mi or whatever the suggested interval is). This is AWESOME, since you don't run into all the problem of "oil-less" turbines, but still get the install convenience of oil-less. For endurance racing guys I'd recommend an engine oil feed, but I'm curious where they draw the line - if the average trackday guy can run their internally lubricated setup with no issues I'll be smitten.

I agreed with your comments.

The SC pumps air. The higher the restriction of the the engine the more pressure you will have. Idealy if the engine breaths well , the engine uses the air and converts it to power.
I have seen a K24 make 450 RWHP with a big SC and the engine was Stock but only register 18 psi

With my other car , she breaths really well due to the head design and i get much more power with a lower PSI reading.

With regards to the kit this is what is important . What is the pressure drop of the IC. How low do the IAT's get ?
Data Data Data ? Selling a kit these should have been shown , mention and actually if they are good bragged about but nothing there ?

[JordanInnovations]

Originally Posted by MANDALAY

I agreed with your comments.

The SC pumps air. The higher the restriction of the the engine the more pressure you will have. Idealy if the engine breaths well , the engine uses the air and converts it to power.
I have seen a K24 make 450 RWHP with a big SC and the engine was Stock but only register 18 psi

With my other car , she breaths really well due to the head design and i get much more power with a lower PSI reading.

With regards to the kit this is what is important . What is the pressure drop of the IC. How low do the IAT's get ?
Data Data Data ? Selling a kit these should have been shown , mention and actually if they are good bragged about but nothing there ?

With the stock ECU/no SC/stock airbox I didn't log IATs, and you'd really have to do a back/back on the same day to have good data. I'd be more than happy to log IATs when the ambient temps come back up to 80+ with a diag tool.

The pressure drop across the piping and intercooler is going to be tiny, my educated guess is less than 1psi. The intercooler is plenty big for 40lbs/min and moreover, I think every forced induction kit will use a VERY similar piping/IC design due to the throttle body placement (not really a whole lot you can do, to shorten the piping would mean more bends).

[MANDALAY]

I think there would IAT's logged when the car was on the dyno tuning ?

[JP]

standard practise to log IAT's on the dyno over here... But in NA form I'd be quite suprised if the intake temps were more than a few degree's different to ambient

[RYU]

Are colder spark plugs needed with this kit?

Does this have some sort of bypass valve (open when not in boost) like the positive displacement blowers do?

[Coheed]

Originally Posted by RYU

Are colder spark plugs needed with this kit?

Does this have some sort of bypass valve (open when not in boost) like the positive displacement blowers do?

This engine already has very very cold plugs. Running anything colder wouldn't be recommended.

[JordanInnovations]

We used Vortech's tune, car hasn't seen the dyno yet... if I had it on a dyno I'd be logging all that stuff, but my point was, it's cold here and that's not enough boost to make a real difference ~ the real test will be to dyno a N/A car and then the Vortech car when it's 100*F and see if the IATs start to run away.

Originally Posted by RYU

Are colder spark plugs needed with this kit?

Does this have some sort of bypass valve (open when not in boost) like the positive displacement blowers do?

Doesn't need colder plugs at this level, and yes, it comes with a bypass valve.

Originally Posted by Coheed

This engine already has very very cold plugs. Running anything colder wouldn't be recommended.