Upgraded Oil Pan Development - Formula Delta

[ruturaj001]

Originally Posted by zeroomega

STI team did an oil path analysis on their FA24DIT engine on their WRX endurance race car and part of their improvement is to add a small vertical baffle to the timing chain cover to help oil return back to the pan when car transit from left turn to right turn.

I assume this is hard to do?

[zeroomega]

Originally Posted by ruturaj001

I assume this is hard to do?

I am not sure. STI engineers didn't mention how they attach the vertical baffle in place. From the graph, it blocks the oil from flowing around the oil pickup tube section in the timing chain cover area.

[zeroomega]

Originally Posted by Frost

Nice to finally "meet" you and thanks to all of your work and 900BRZ. It's a godsend and what got me finally off my ass to get it started on my end.

I already have the original prototype (call it v1) in my car and there are promising results but we don't want to release data on it just yet because it is not the production model yet. Mine has a bunch of features for making it easy to retrofit or change features during testing. The v2 basically strips it down to as close as production will be and then we are going to go test it out and that will be the proper data to release.

That said, the data we harvested on the v1 (but with Nankang CRS 245 square and -3 alignment front, -2.5 rear) was very helpful (most importantly: I didn't blow my engine - oil analysis inbound as well) and that's what's driving some feature changes in the new pan. We pulled ~1.5G on the corners compared to the 1.1 on stock tires so it's been battle tested.

The vertical baffling is helpful to mitigate the right hand turn drops in our opinion because whatever oil that does return in preceding turns can stay near the pickup area instead of moving off away. The baffles are also designed for the operating temperatures of the stock oil without cooling and yes, I did have the same concern about it coming off and clogging the pickup tube but the design has mitigated most of those concerns.

Sit tight, we're about to go do final testing soon and the data will be ready to release shortly. Bear with us! I'm just as excited as everyone else is.

I would say me included, there will be a portion of potential buyers will be concerned if the baffle plate has moving parts like rubber flap (which could degrade from old age). The lower pan is not something that can be take out of the car easily for inspection and a falling flap will cause catastrophic engine failure. (see

, while the video claim the engine might have already failed before the flaps fall off. But it is a fact the flaps failed). We also see even without a complex baffle, a larger oil pan itself will improve oil starvation situation dramatically. It would be hard to argue the performance gain from a falling trap door out weight the risk of engine blow up when trap door falls.

I would say hypothetically if I buy your large oil pan, I would definitely remove all the rubber flap trap doors if they present.

[Frost]

Originally Posted by zeroomega

I would say me included, there will be a portion of potential buyers will be concerned if the baffle plate has moving parts like rubber flap (which could degrade from old age). The lower pan is not something that can be take out of the car easily for inspection and a falling flap will cause catastrophic engine failure. (see

, while the video claim the engine might have already failed before the flaps fall off. But it is a fact the flaps failed). We also see even without a complex baffle, a larger oil pan itself will improve oil starvation situation dramatically. It would be hard to argue the performance gain from a falling trap door out weight the risk of engine blow up when trap door falls.

I would say hypothetically if I buy your large oil pan, I would definitely remove all the rubber flap trap doors if they present.

Thanks for the feedback and video link. We will take it into consideration.

[OldBiker]

One more reason not to have rubber flaps (or rubber anything) near hot engine oil :-)
(Generally interesting video for the mechanically inclined...)

[Frost]

Originally Posted by OldBiker

One more reason not to have rubber flaps (or rubber anything) near hot engine oil :-)
(Generally interesting video for the mechanically inclined...)

While a neat video, if properly selected and designed, the rubber flaps can last a very long long time.

There's already plenty of rubber parts that undergo mechanical and thermal stress in your car joints for example. That said, I do understand why people can have concerns.

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by Frost

if properly selected and designed, the rubber flaps can last a very long long time.

There's already plenty of rubber parts that undergo mechanical and thermal stress in your car joints for example. That said, I do understand why people can have concerns.

I know that the Lotus Evora came with flaps in the oil pan in the GT variant, and potentially late in the 400 variant as well. They are a maintenance item with a short interval (2 years) and people claim they become brittle and break quite quickly (i.e. it's not an exaggerated interval). Perhaps a bigger OEM could design a baffle flap system that doesn't need frequent servicing. Does any other cars come with them from the factory? I couldn't find any in a quick search (even for cars that I would expect to have them like a 911 GT3) - most hits are for aftermarket oil pans. I can imagine them moving to dry-sump instead, so perhaps flaps are a niche solution.