Likely the first FA2/4 hybrid incoming

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Drifter X

You can buy a crate motor. https://parts.bestbuysubaru.com/p/En...0100CE990.html


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You can try, but previous experience from other people like Opie, you can’t buy without a valid VIN.

[blsfrs]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

The crank position sensor and reluctor are different on 17’+ as well. Innie vs. outie like the cam position and I believe the crank position sensor has an extra wire vs. pre 17’ cars.

I'll be curious to see how RS Motors handled the crank sensor. He said my motor will be ready in a few days.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by blsfrs

I'll be curious to see how RS Motors handled the crank sensor. He said my motor will be ready in a few days.

I figure just a new bracket to hold the first gen crank position sensor at the correct distance to read. The stock sensor is mounted to a little bracket already on the driver side at a little window in the block.

[removedonut]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

The crank position sensor and reluctor are different on 17’+ as well. Innie vs. outie like the cam position and I believe the crank position sensor has an extra wire vs. pre 17’ cars.

In the 2016-2017 changeover, crank position went from variable reluctance to hall effect which is why the sensor went from 2 wire to 3 wire. The angle of the teeth changed along with the sensor, but the actual pattern of the reluctor wheel did not. 13-16 and 17-20 put out the same crank signal waveform, it’s just VR sine wave vs hall effect square wave.

17-20 FA20 and 22+ FA24 both have the same hall effect waveform, the sensor and the size of the reluctor is the only change. So we can reuse the FA24 crank signal with an adapter harness.

On the 13-16, we need to get a variable reluctance signal out of the FA24. That’s what my custom crank position sensor and bracket setup accomplishes.

[removedonut]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

I figure just a new bracket to hold the first gen crank position sensor at the correct distance to read. The stock sensor is mounted to a little bracket already on the driver side at a little window in the block.

Unlikely. Here’s what a first gen sensor looks like compared to the much longer Prius sensor I ended up going with in order to get the proper length to read the reluctor wheel.

You’d need to bury the bracket waaaaay down in the bellhousing to get the sensor close enough, and at that point the bracket would probably interfere with the backside of the flywheel.

They probably also settled on using a different variable reluctance sensor. If we both ended up with the Prius sensor I’m gonna laugh though.

[removedonut]

Originally Posted by removedonut

Unlikely. Here’s what a first gen sensor looks like compared to the much longer Prius sensor I ended up going with in order to get the proper length to read the reluctor wheel.

You’d need to bury the bracket waaaaay down in the bellhousing to get the sensor close enough, and at that point the bracket would probably interfere with the backside of the flywheel.

They probably also settled on using a different variable reluctance sensor. If we both ended up with the Prius sensor I’m gonna laugh though.

Actually, I found a video on their FB page. Based off the angle the sensor comes in compared to mine, they may have gone with a custom fabricated reluctor setup that is able to clear the FA24 block castings and is large enough to allow the use of the much shorter FA20 sensor. I’d be very interested to see the wheel, if so. The stock FA20 wheel won’t clear the FA24 at all.

Comparison between my bracket w/ Prius sensor vs. stock FA20 bracket/sensor. You can see that their angle is much more reminiscent of the FA20 bracket versus mine which is modeled on the FA24 bracket.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by removedonut

Actually, I found a video on their FB page. Based off the angle the sensor comes in compared to mine, they may have gone with a custom fabricated reluctor setup that is able to clear the FA24 block castings and is large enough to allow the use of the much shorter FA20 sensor. I’d be very interested to see the wheel, if so. The stock FA20 wheel won’t clear the FA24 at all.

Comparison between my bracket w/ Prius sensor vs. stock FA20 bracket/sensor. You can see that their angle is much more reminiscent of the FA20 bracket versus mine which is modeled on the FA24 bracket.

I saw pictures of their setup months ago. I just couldn’t recall exactly what it was. I was pretty sure it was a bracket. I messaged questions to them early on over FB.

Your setup is interesting and I didn’t know about the 17+ and FA24 using VR for crank signal. I’ve never had a 17+ engine in my possession.

[Drifter X]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

You can try, but previous experience from other people like Opie, you can’t buy without a valid VIN.

I talked to the person who gave me that link and did his own swap. He didn’t have to provide the VIN. He said he explained to the dealership what he was gonna do with the motor. They said no warranty and sold it to him. I guess you might have to find the right dealer.


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[blsfrs]

Am I correct in assuming the Prius crank sensor reads/generates a VR sine wave like our 2013-2016 FA20s.

[removedonut]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

I saw pictures of their setup months ago. I just couldn’t recall exactly what it was. I was pretty sure it was a bracket. I messaged questions to them early on over FB.

Your setup is interesting and I didn’t know about the 17+ and FA24 using VR for crank signal. I’ve never had a 17+ engine in my possession.

Got it backwards. 13-16 is VR, 17-20 and 22+ are hall effect.

Originally Posted by blsfrs

Am I correct in assuming the Prius crank sensor reads/generates a VR sine wave like our 2013-2016 FA20s.

Yes.

[removedonut]

Originally Posted by blsfrs

I'll be curious to see how RS Motors handled the crank sensor. He said my motor will be ready in a few days.

Just spoke with someone who had their car swapped by RS Motors. Apparently their solution is putting the FA20 reluctor wheel in a press and bending it until it clears the FA24 block castings, and then using a custom bracket for the FA20 sensor.

Pretty cool how we arrived at different solutions to the same problem lol. My solution is pretty indicative of the fact that I’m a wiring harness/electronics guy and chose to solve it electronically. Whereas Ronnie has an actual shop with fabrication capabilities and chose to solve it mechanically.

[blsfrs]

Back in the day, we would have laid the reluctor wheel on the floor and hit it a few times with a BFH.

Which wiring harness do you use?

[removedonut]

Originally Posted by blsfrs

Back in the day, we would have laid the reluctor wheel on the floor and hit it a few times with a BFH.

Which wiring harness do you use?

For the FA24 swap? In my kit, we use the FA20 wiring harness with a few adapters that allow it to connect to the FA24.

[blsfrs]

Originally Posted by removedonut

The short answer to this question, as the other guy stated, is that after making the necessary modifications the FA24 will appear no different to the 1st gen ECU compared to an FA20.

The more detailed answer depends on whether we’re talking about a 13-16 or 17-20. Broadly, the only sensor differences between the FA24 and FA20 are:
- Oil temperature
- Coolant temperature
- Evap purge
- Fuel pressure
- Crank position
- Cam position (only for 13-16, 17-20 is same as FA24)

The first four we can solve with connector repins since the sensor has changed, but the data it’s outputting has not. Crank position is also solvable via a connector swap on 17-20 cars, but requires a full custom solution on 13-16 due to the sensor type completely changing, which is what I’m working on. 13-16 also has an inverted camshaft position signal compared to what the FA24 puts out, which is what the metal trigger wheels pictured in my product photo are meant to solve.

Since you are using the Fa20 wiring harness, instead of repinning the "first 4" sensors, couldn't you just use the FA20 sensors? Or am I missing something?