follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Delicious Tuning
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Engine Swaps

Engine Swaps Discussion of engine swaps.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-13-2024, 12:34 PM   #309
autoracer86
Senior Member
 
autoracer86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Drives: Toyota GT86
Location: Ireland
Posts: 567
Thanks: 506
Thanked 385 Times in 243 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Since the first gen and second gen ecu are a bit different how does that affect the performance and tuning ? Sorry if that's a noob question very new to these things lol

I am becoming more and more interested in doing a FA24 swap or maybe FA24 short block with FA20 heads over say a supercharger.
autoracer86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2024, 01:06 PM   #310
Tatsu333
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Drives: 2020 BRZ Sport Tech RS
Location: Canada
Posts: 366
Thanks: 439
Thanked 259 Times in 147 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by autoracer86 View Post
Since the first gen and second gen ecu are a bit different how does that affect the performance and tuning ? Sorry if that's a noob question very new to these things lol

I am becoming more and more interested in doing a FA24 swap or maybe FA24 short block with FA20 heads over say a supercharger.
The FA20 ECU would need to be tuned to run the FA24 properly.
__________________
Tatsu333 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2024, 01:12 PM   #311
autoracer86
Senior Member
 
autoracer86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Drives: Toyota GT86
Location: Ireland
Posts: 567
Thanks: 506
Thanked 385 Times in 243 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatsu333 View Post
The FA20 ECU would need to be tuned to run the FA24 properly.
Yeah I know it needs to be tuned but does the FA20 ecu have all the same tables and what not to run the FA24.
autoracer86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2024, 05:01 PM   #312
Ultramaroon
extra what?
 
Ultramaroon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Drives: a 13 e8h frs
Location: vantucky, wa
Posts: 32,123
Thanks: 52,588
Thanked 36,871 Times in 19,119 Posts
Mentioned: 1111 Post(s)
Tagged: 9 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by autoracer86 View Post
Yeah I know it needs to be tuned but does the FA20 ecu have all the same tables and what not to run the FA24.
Practically any four cylinder engine can be modded to look like an fa20 for the ecu. It'll work perfectly.
__________________
Ultramaroon is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Ultramaroon For This Useful Post:
autoracer86 (05-13-2024), NoHaveMSG (05-17-2024), pope (05-14-2024), Tatsu333 (05-13-2024)
Old 05-13-2024, 05:18 PM   #313
autoracer86
Senior Member
 
autoracer86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Drives: Toyota GT86
Location: Ireland
Posts: 567
Thanks: 506
Thanked 385 Times in 243 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultramaroon View Post
Practically any four cylinder engine can be modded to look like an fa20 for the ecu. It'll work perfectly.
Cool thanks ! I should have a better read over this thread
autoracer86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2024, 01:00 PM   #314
removedonut
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Drives: 2022 Toyota GR86 Premium 6MT
Location: Denver
Posts: 79
Thanks: 11
Thanked 214 Times in 49 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by autoracer86 View Post
Since the first gen and second gen ecu are a bit different how does that affect the performance and tuning ?
The short answer to this question, as the other guy stated, is that after making the necessary modifications the FA24 will appear no different to the 1st gen ECU compared to an FA20.

The more detailed answer depends on whether we’re talking about a 13-16 or 17-20. Broadly, the only sensor differences between the FA24 and FA20 are:
- Oil temperature
- Coolant temperature
- Evap purge
- Fuel pressure
- Crank position
- Cam position (only for 13-16, 17-20 is same as FA24)

The first four we can solve with connector repins since the sensor has changed, but the data it’s outputting has not. Crank position is also solvable via a connector swap on 17-20 cars, but requires a full custom solution on 13-16 due to the sensor type completely changing, which is what I’m working on. 13-16 also has an inverted camshaft position signal compared to what the FA24 puts out, which is what the metal trigger wheels pictured in my product photo are meant to solve.
removedonut is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to removedonut For This Useful Post:
autoracer86 (05-16-2024), bcj (05-16-2024), blsfrs (05-17-2024), RToyo86 (05-17-2024), Spankopotomous (05-16-2024), T-Steve (05-16-2024), Tatsu333 (05-16-2024), Teseo (05-16-2024), Ultramaroon (05-16-2024)
Old 05-16-2024, 03:03 PM   #315
autoracer86
Senior Member
 
autoracer86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Drives: Toyota GT86
Location: Ireland
Posts: 567
Thanks: 506
Thanked 385 Times in 243 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Thanks for the detailed explanation
autoracer86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2024, 09:13 AM   #316
alphasaur
friendly
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Drives: 17' 86
Location: Dutchess County, NY
Posts: 730
Thanks: 1,477
Thanked 483 Times in 293 Posts
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by removedonut View Post
Correct. 2017-2020 is a much cheaper option since we are able to use the FA24 as-is with just 4 adapter harnesses and a fuel pressure sensor swap, since the 17-20 ECU is already set up to accept a hall effect crank signal and shares the same cam reluctor pattern as the FA24.

(also hi. i am the one building those swap kits lol. happy to answer any questions about the swap)
So fa24 is effectively plug and play now?
__________________
Seek comfort in discomfort.
alphasaur is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to alphasaur For This Useful Post:
blsfrs (05-17-2024)
Old 05-17-2024, 11:53 AM   #317
removedonut
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Drives: 2022 Toyota GR86 Premium 6MT
Location: Denver
Posts: 79
Thanks: 11
Thanked 214 Times in 49 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphasaur View Post
So fa24 is effectively plug and play now?
For 17-20, yeah. Plug in 4 adapters, replace the FA24 fuel pressure sensor with a 17-20 sensor, and you have a running FA24.

13-16 requires that you pop open the timing cover and replace the trigger wheels on the cam gears which I wouldn’t exactly call plug and play, but as far as engine swaps go it’s ez.
removedonut is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to removedonut For This Useful Post:
alphasaur (05-17-2024), blsfrs (05-18-2024), Spankopotomous (05-19-2024)
Old 05-17-2024, 12:10 PM   #318
alphasaur
friendly
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Drives: 17' 86
Location: Dutchess County, NY
Posts: 730
Thanks: 1,477
Thanked 483 Times in 293 Posts
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by removedonut View Post
For 17-20, yeah. Plug in 4 adapters, replace the FA24 fuel pressure sensor with a 17-20 sensor, and you have a running FA24.

13-16 requires that you pop open the timing cover and replace the trigger wheels on the cam gears which I wouldn’t exactly call plug and play, but as far as engine swaps go it’s ez.
time to bump my boost to the moon
__________________
Seek comfort in discomfort.
alphasaur is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to alphasaur For This Useful Post:
blsfrs (05-18-2024)
Old 05-17-2024, 12:37 PM   #319
jflogerzi
Senior Member
 
jflogerzi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Drives: 2013 Series 10 6MT FR-S
Location: Moreno Valley, CA
Posts: 5,565
Thanks: 2,013
Thanked 2,040 Times in 1,473 Posts
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Now we just need more wrecked Gen 2's to make the engines cheaper!
__________________
2013 Series 10 FRS #553
RCE T2's, SPC LCAs -4/2.6 camber
JDL 4-2-1 EL, FP and OP, Tuned by Zach@CSG on e85
RR Wilwood Front/Rear Sport BBK, Motul 600 Fluid
ARC-8 17x9 SX2 GTs 245s/Koing 17x8 v730's 225's
jflogerzi is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to jflogerzi For This Useful Post:
alphasaur (05-17-2024), blsfrs (05-18-2024), kmbkk (05-17-2024), Teseo (05-17-2024)
Old 05-17-2024, 01:09 PM   #320
alphasaur
friendly
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Drives: 17' 86
Location: Dutchess County, NY
Posts: 730
Thanks: 1,477
Thanked 483 Times in 293 Posts
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jflogerzi View Post
Now we just need more wrecked Gen 2's to make the engines cheaper!
everytime I see a wrecked gen 2 on reddit
Attached Images
 
__________________
Seek comfort in discomfort.
alphasaur is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to alphasaur For This Useful Post:
jflogerzi (05-17-2024), kmbkk (05-17-2024), pope (05-27-2024), Racecomp Engineering (05-18-2024), T-Steve (05-17-2024), Teseo (05-17-2024), Ultramaroon (05-17-2024)
Old 05-18-2024, 12:43 AM   #321
Drifter X
Senior Member
 
Drifter X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Drives: 2019 Toyota 86 TRD SE
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 237
Thanks: 160
Thanked 87 Times in 72 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
You can buy a crate motor. https://parts.bestbuysubaru.com/p/En...0100CE990.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Drifter X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2024, 12:29 PM   #322
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: Crapcan
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,284
Thanks: 18,391
Thanked 16,479 Times in 7,464 Posts
Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by removedonut View Post
For 17-20, yeah. Plug in 4 adapters, replace the FA24 fuel pressure sensor with a 17-20 sensor, and you have a running FA24.

13-16 requires that you pop open the timing cover and replace the trigger wheels on the cam gears which I wouldn’t exactly call plug and play, but as far as engine swaps go it’s ez.
The crank position sensor and reluctor are different on 17’+ as well. Innie vs. outie like the cam position and I believe the crank position sensor has an extra wire vs. pre 17’ cars.
__________________
"Experience is the hardest kind of teacher. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterward." -Oscar Wilde.
NoHaveMSG is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FA20 vs FA24 Zata Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 15 06-01-2023 10:18 AM
FA24 In-Depth Look Kona61 GR86 General Topics (2nd Gen 2022+ Toyota 86) 36 10-11-2021 08:27 AM
Second Gen Swap? FA24 AutoNewb Engine Swaps 86 07-06-2021 10:55 AM
FA24 Mix n Match RiceCracker86 Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 1 04-18-2019 03:59 PM
Incoming... MisterSheep Off-Topic Lounge [WARNING: NO POLITICS] 19 04-02-2016 12:33 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.