Potential Cause of rumored GR86’s blown engine? Seal packing(RTV) was peeled off

[DylanJZA]

rumor has it a certain recent engine failed due to overrev (3rd to 2nd shift) and not because of the pickup being covered in rtv.

doesn't diminish the fact that the rtv in the oilpan is an issue however.

[pq86]

it is possible that subaru designed the pick up to tolerate partial blockage so that they could save costs on engine assembly i guess? at least, they could claim that maybe.

has anyone looked at the oil pickups of FA24 ascents?

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by DylanJZA

rumor has it a certain recent engine failed due to overrev (3rd to 2nd shift) and not because of the pickup being covered in rtv.

doesn't diminish the fact that the rtv in the oilpan is an issue however.

Ye olde money shift.

[Opie]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

I'm fully capable, but not willing. Like you said later, we shouldn't even have to worry about something like that.

I wouldn't worry about it. There are too many unknowns to fret over it. See GRM article....

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Does that mean ECM in the new cars is recording and storing all engine parameter and g-load data? Permanently?

I thought most new cars only recorded the last 5-30 seconds leading up to something like a collision?

These are different systems...the EDR, event data recorder records certain info prior to an airbag deployment. Seatbelt use, brake or accelerator pedal application, speed, etc.

There is a seperate system that logs data when a CEL occurs as well. Not sure how long it is stored, I do know dealer service employees cannot access it, but corporate employees such as FSM's can. It stores temps, pressures, MPH, g-loads, and more...The Starlink system stores GPS location...not sure if either of the other systems do as well.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Opie

I wouldn't worry about it. There are too many unknowns to fret over it. See GRM article....

I've already seen it and the Facebook post. I've been a subscriber of theirs for nearly 20 years.

Originally Posted by Opie

These are different systems...the EDR, event data recorder records certain info prior to an airbag deployment. Seatbelt use, brake or accelerator pedal application, speed, etc.

There is a seperate system that logs data when a CEL occurs as well. Not sure how long it is stored, I do know dealer service employees cannot access it, but corporate employees such as FSM's can. It stores temps, pressures, MPH, g-loads, and more...The Starlink system stores GPS location...not sure if either of the other systems do as well.

Ahh ok, gotcha.

I'm not too worried about it. When it gets here I'm going to slap my suspension/wheels/tires on it and enjoy.

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by pq86

It’s deeply ironic that the redesigned subaru oil pickup, with its nice cheese grater design, probably allowed this issue to slip by standard QA/QC process. With a EJ style pickup this would have blown up engines in QA and been corrected

And that's a great lesson that both unit and end-to-end testing are important. It's a shame they still haven't put a proper oil pressure sensor into these engines, along with a CEL warning if the pressure goes out of spec.

I'm sure if they had that early on on all engines during testing that'd not only catch the RTV clogging sooner, but also they would possibly design a few other things better as well.

"If you care about something, put a sensor on it!"

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Opie

They suspect the car ran low on oil due to excessive consumption caused by it's heavy initial use during the break in period as evidenced by the over-rev data, mph data and g-load data in the car. Engine damage showed obvious lack of lubrication, there was no loose sealant noted during engine teardown.

So I was thinking about this, if it only records parameters during a CEL, how do they know there was a heavy use during the break-in? Since the other things you mentioned were ostensibly only recorded after a CEL became present. Or are they saying there were multiple CEL's that cleared themselves and then reset during a restart event?

Didn't the guy share pictures of RTV in the pick up tube or was that someone else?

[mycrors7]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

So I was thinking about this, if it only records parameters during a CEL, how do they know there was a heavy use during the break-in? Since the other things you mentioned were ostensibly only recorded after a CEL became present. Or are they saying there were multiple CEL's that cleared themselves and then reset during a restart event?

Didn't the guy share pictures of RTV in the pick up tube or was that someone else?

it might be set up to record the first 1000 miles regardless of the vehicle status, much like how c8 corvettes had a hard rev limiter and power cut for 500 miles and the car would automatically let you rev the piss out of it as soon as you touched 500 miles

[toeout]

On my car(GR86) the oil level was at max mark on the dipstick at the time of failure. I checked the oil level before the event and then after the failure.

I did buy 1 qt of Toyota's 0W-20 about a month before the failure, to bring the oil level back to max. By the 5500 miles, when the engine failed, I had added about 0.75 qt of oil to the factory fill, to keep the oil level at max.

Also, if it matters, the oil temp at the time of failure was about 235deg F. 3rd run on a National Tour.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by toeout

On my car(GR86) the oil level was at max mark on the dipstick at the time of failure. I checked the oil level before the event and then after the failure.

I did buy 1 qt of Toyota's 0W-20 about a month before the failure, to bring the oil level back to max. By the 5500 miles, when the engine failed, I had added about 0.75 qt of oil to the factory fill, to keep the oil level at max.

Also, if it matters, the oil temp at the time of failure was about 235deg F. 3rd run on a National Tour.

Everybody is so focused on the high profile case and ignoring the others. There are probably more factors involved then either "just abuse" or "there is crap in the pickup".
The 235 is pretty much exactly where it should be so heat may not be a consideration (thought based solely on that single data point)

[RippedManiac]

Originally Posted by Petah78

There is absolutely nothing else. The closest thing is the BMW M2 which i seriously considered but with the used car prices AND not wanting to pay BMW running costs, that was ruled out quickly.

I test drove a 2018 MT last week after months of pining over it. I was kinda disappointed TBH. The shifter was rubbery and the throw was long. M2 clutch pedal was deep and not as crispy as brz. When I put my foot down it was linear and faster than the BRZ, but it wasnt as fast as I was expecting. You could feel the weight of the car. I guess I was expecting the greatest BMW ever and its perfect with 0 flaws.

Still waiting on Z, Manual Supra, GR Corolla, Kouki GR86

TL DR IMO 2018 M2 wasnt enough car to justify all the money. What makes a sportscar is the light weight.

[removedonut]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

So I was thinking about this, if it only records parameters during a CEL, how do they know there was a heavy use during the break-in? Since the other things you mentioned were ostensibly only recorded after a CEL became present. Or are they saying there were multiple CEL's that cleared themselves and then reset during a restart event?

Didn't the guy share pictures of RTV in the pick up tube or was that someone else?

Over-rev will also cause freeze frame data to be stored without a DTC being generated. Assuming we’re talking about the BRZ posted on the GR86 forum, he over-revved before the 1000 mile break in period.
He did not share any pictures of RTV in his pickup.

[removedonut]

Originally Posted by Robertw

From the Grassroots Motorsports article
How does Toyota (one of the largest automakers) not have it's own in house staff dealing with this? lol

This is a special scenario due to Toyota’s very strange relationship in this specific region. In Arkansas, Louisiana, Texas, Mississippi, and Oklahoma, Gulf States Toyota (an independent company) has exclusive rights for authorized sale and distribution of Toyota vehicles in those states. They effectively take Toyota USA’s place in most, if not all decision making, and they are the entity that presides over every dealership in the region. This is due to a stupid ass agreement that toyota signed like 50 years ago.

It’s entirely possible this issue never even went as high as Toyota themselves because of this.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by removedonut

This is a special scenario due to Toyota’s very strange relationship in this specific region. In Arkansas, Louisiana, Texas, Mississippi, and Oklahoma, Gulf States Toyota (an independent company) has exclusive rights for authorized sale and distribution of Toyota vehicles in those states. They effectively take Toyota USA’s place in most, if not all decision making, and they are the entity that presides over every dealership in the region. This is due to a stupid ass agreement that toyota signed like 50 years ago.

It’s entirely possible this issue never even went as high as Toyota themselves because of this.

That makes a lot more sense. I was wondering who this FST was representing.