Potential Cause of rumored GR86’s blown engine? Seal packing(RTV) was peeled off

[Ronac]

It seems like you can see if there's way too much RTV used even from the outside of the timing cover. Anyone concerned can have a look and share photos to compare. Hopefully later build dates have less excess on the outside of the timing cover.

[FrickingReallySlow]

Thanks for taking the photos for us. Also hopefully you get yourself back on the road soon.

There's no guessing from what caused it, its the oil pan RTV. From experience based on Gen1, even roughly 15%-20% blockage on that oil pickup was detrimental. There's pics from the J02 recall and other oil starvation threads where the RTV was "spiking" through the oil pickup (since it was easily removaable)

You can see here that it was broken off from the oil pan (red circles) and areas where it hasn't broken off yet (rounded rectangle). On the corresponding side of the upper oil pan I didn't see any residual RTV stuck there, unless maybe dealer ripped it off during disassembly.

I see you got your car in November in Tennessee. How cold was the winter? did you drive it a lot in the winter time?

Originally Posted by toeout

I went by the dealer today. The field engineer had been out there and inspected it. They told me that they had couple of theories why the rod spun, but nothing conclusive. They did let me take pictures, so judge yourself.

The spun rod was the one closest to the front of the engine.

[Petah78]

Originally Posted by Rustyoid

Thanks!

So this is from the first production run. Time will tell if it they caught it after this first run or not

How do you know this was from the first PROD run? What date range separates the first, second, third runs etc?

[Tcoat]

Nothing "conclusive"?

[toeout]

Originally Posted by FrickingReallySlow

I see you got your car in November in Tennessee. How cold was the winter? did you drive it a lot in the winter time?

I actually bought the car in Feb 2022 from Orchard Park, NY. That was the closest I could find one.

It got down to about 8°F the night I was there. The dealership had it washed I think before I got there because the front pads were frozen so hard to the discs, that they had blow torch the discs to get the car moving. We initially thought it was the hill control acting up. I was marveling how well it shifted in that kind of cold, compared to my 2013, when I had it.

Then the next day I drove it home to TN. Didn't drive in TN during the winter and it was pretty warm here anyway.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by toeout

I went by the dealer today. The field engineer had been out there and inspected it. They told me that they had couple of theories why the rod spun, but nothing conclusive. They did let me take pictures, so judge yourself.

The spun rod was the one closest to the front of the engine.

Strange it spun #1, wonder what the oil feed holes for the crank look like on the mains.

He has some theories? So do I, look at the oil pan, upper pan assy, and timing cover. Somebody set the FIPG robot to "goober." Depending on the area it is only supposed to be a 4-6mm bead when applying. Looks like you have globs bigger than that.

[FrickingReallySlow]

Should rule out thermal cycling brittleness of the RTV then.

Just thinking out loud... does the factory oil fill above the RTV line at 5.8 quarts? if its above the RTV then the excess bulbous parts would experience suction from the oil flow getting pulled into the pickup and then once a little bit starts pealing, the positive displacement oil pump would basically do the rest of the work and peal away the excess from the oil pan.

where would the dip stick level be on the FA24D vs the upper oil pan?

Originally Posted by toeout

I actually bought the car in Feb 2022 from Orchard Park, NY. That was the closest I could find one.

It got down to about 8°F the night I was there. The dealership had it washed I think before I got there because the front pads were frozen so hard to the discs, that they had blow torch the discs to get the car moving. We initially thought it was the hill control acting up. I was marveling how well it shifted in that kind of cold, compared to my 2013, when I had it.

Then the next day I drove it home to TN. Didn't drive in TN during the winter and it was pretty warm here anyway.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by FrickingReallySlow

Should rule out thermal cycling brittleness of the RTV then.

Just thinking out loud... does the factory oil fill above the RTV line at 5.8 quarts? if its above the RTV then the excess bulbous parts would experience suction from the oil flow getting pulled into the pickup and then once a little bit starts pealing, the positive displacement oil pump would basically do the rest of the work and peal away the excess from the oil pan.

where would the dip stick level be on the FA24D vs the upper oil pan?

With that much excess and how thin it is compressed at the actual contact points just the engine heat, vibration and oil sloshing around would be plenty to pull off chunks. Those big strips inside are only held on by almost paper then sections.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by toeout

They told me that they had couple of theories why the rod spun, but nothing conclusive.

[Rustyoid]

Originally Posted by Petah78

How do you know this was from the first PROD run? What date range separates the first, second, third runs etc?

That's a really good question actually.

I don't have specific date ranges really, but I do know for certain that November was the first month the GR86 went into production for North America. If I remember correctly BRZ and possibly JDM GR86(?) went into production before that.

So saying this is from the first production run isn't 100% accurate, but it is most certainly a vehicle from the first N/A GR86.

In the dealer portal you can see a specific date, and not just a build month. As well you can find the engine serial number. This is probably what will be important as any recall/extended warranty campaign would be tied to the engine serial number. Well, assuming that the oil pans would be installed on the blocks before they actually install the blocks in the car.

I also noticed that after the initial december allocations and launch, allocations dropped off until february. Now this could be simply building more BRZs, or other market cars. But it is interesting. Also, short blocks have not been orderable since the release. Normal for a new sports car engine, but still interesting.

I have a feeling they caught it early

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Rustyoid

That's a really good question actually.

I don't have specific date ranges really, but I do know for certain that November was the first month the GR86 went into production for North America. If I remember correctly BRZ and possibly JDM GR86(?) went into production before that.

So saying this is from the first production run isn't 100% accurate, but it is most certainly a vehicle from the first N/A GR86.

In the dealer portal you can see a specific date, and not just a build month. As well you can find the engine serial number. This is probably what will be important as any recall/extended warranty campaign would be tied to the engine serial number. Well, assuming that the oil pans would be installed on the blocks before they actually install the blocks in the car.

I also noticed that after the initial december allocations and launch, allocations dropped off until february. Now this could be simply building more BRZs, or other market cars. But it is interesting. Also, short blocks have not been orderable since the release. Normal for a new sports car engine, but still interesting.

I have a feeling they caught it early

All the examples from the start of this thread were JDM. It is pretty safe to assume they were a first or at least very early production run. How much that overlaps into the North American run is anybody's guess though.

Unfortunately if it is an application screwup for any reason it can happen at random so having a later run car is no guarantee that it was fixed. All depends on how quickly they found and corrected the issue.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

All the examples from the start of this thread were JDM. It is pretty safe to assume they were a first or at least very early production run. How much that overlaps into the North American run is anybody's guess though.

Unfortunately if it is an application screwup for any reason it can happen at random so having a later run car is no guarantee that it was fixed. All depends on how quickly they found and corrected the issue.

I could imagine the guy on the next shift came in to calibrate the machine and went "lets go ahead and recalibrate this and hope all those other engines were okay."

Even applying the FIPG by hand temperature has a huge effect. I usually drop the tube in a bucket of warm water before use just for consistency sake.

[Petah78]

Originally Posted by Rustyoid

That's a really good question actually.

I don't have specific date ranges really, but I do know for certain that November was the first month the GR86 went into production for North America. If I remember correctly BRZ and possibly JDM GR86(?) went into production before that.

So saying this is from the first production run isn't 100% accurate, but it is most certainly a vehicle from the first N/A GR86.

In the dealer portal you can see a specific date, and not just a build month. As well you can find the engine serial number. This is probably what will be important as any recall/extended warranty campaign would be tied to the engine serial number. Well, assuming that the oil pans would be installed on the blocks before they actually install the blocks in the car.

I also noticed that after the initial december allocations and launch, allocations dropped off until february. Now this could be simply building more BRZs, or other market cars. But it is interesting. Also, short blocks have not been orderable since the release. Normal for a new sports car engine, but still interesting.

I have a feeling they caught it early

Thank you for your insight. The build date of my Canadian BRZ is 04/22 and i went out to check my timing cover's mating surface to the block and it's pretty much like the one pictured in this thread, a nice bead of grey RTV. Having said that, i have no idea if that is normal/OK or not.

[Petah78]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

All the examples from the start of this thread were JDM. It is pretty safe to assume they were a first or at least very early production run. How much that overlaps into the North American run is anybody's guess though.

Unfortunately if it is an application screwup for any reason it can happen at random so having a later run car is no guarantee that it was fixed. All depends on how quickly they found and corrected the issue.

This is truly a game of Russian Roulette. lol