GR 86: Orders /Reservation /Waitlist Chat

[andys_garage]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

A buddy was just told there will be at least a 5 month wait for a F150.
.

A friend of mine ordered an F150 back in September and still has no ETA

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by andys_garage

A friend of mine ordered an F150 back in September and still has no ETA

Ya and that baffles me because we make the rotors for them and orders have hardly reduced.
There must be a pile of 98% completed trucks sitting someplace.

[TheDonEffect]

If you guys think we have it bad, try ordering a Rav4 Prime. People are happily paying 20k ADMs regularly now. Same with the Sienna.

I do think though the market has softened, or rather plateaued some. We were shopping for CRVs for my inlaws, 4 months ago it was unobtainium new/used, used were going for more than new prices. Since then, the used prices have softened somewhat notably, and we swooped up a good one for a decent price. It's still a seller's market for sure, but the signs are there that perhaps things are turning around.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by TheDonEffect

If you guys think we have it bad, try ordering a Rav4 Prime. People are happily paying 20k ADMs regularly now. Same with the Sienna.

I do think though the market has softened, or rather plateaued some. We were shopping for CRVs for my inlaws, 4 months ago it was unobtainium new/used, used were going for more than new prices. Since then, the used prices have softened somewhat notably, and we swooped up a good one for a decent price. It's still a seller's market for sure, but the signs are there that perhaps things are turning around.

Don't say it...
Don't say it...
Don't sa... oh shit he said it.

Locally they may appear to turning around but globally the manufacturing sector is soon going to take the biggest shit yet. At least in the auto industry.

It is estimated (by people far more informed and smarter than I) that the auto industry had 4 to 6 weeks worth of components and sub components in the pipeline from China. Those supplies are running out and no new parts have been made for over a month. These are basic assembly parts such as nuts, bolts, o-rings, body clips, gauges, springs and an almost endless list of other things needed to build a car or assemble the sub modules in it.
It will take months to get caught back up once China lifts their lock downs. In the interim we can expect to see new cars even harder to get! This situation could be the worst we have seen yet.

[TheDonEffect]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Don't say it...
Don't say it...
Don't sa... oh shit he said it.

Locally they may appear to turning around but globally the manufacturing sector is soon going to take the biggest shit yet. At least in the auto industry.

It is estimated (by people far more informed and smarter than I) that the auto industry had 4 to 6 weeks worth of components and sub components in the pipeline from China. Those supplies are running out and no new parts have been made for over a month. These are basic assembly parts such as nuts, bolts, o-rings, body clips, gauges, springs and an almost endless list of other things needed to build a car or assemble the sub modules in it.
It will take months to get caught back up once China lifts their lock downs. In the interim we can expect to see new cars even harder to get! This situation could be the worst we have seen yet.

That is also not surprising. I figure it will be a rollercoaster of a ride. As the world tries to normalize everything that's been going on, it's going to be a while. I think some of the market softening has to do with alot of financial factors like higher gas, kids back in school needing what they need, moratoriums being lifted, etc etc, so perhaps that's causing the softening, because for sure it ain't supply increases, lol.

[juenedgi]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

I read everything from your perspective and can't find anything the dealer did wrong. They told you 4-6k mark-up with the very wiggly negotiable language. They gave you an offer with a $5,000 mark-up which already represented a "discount" of their high end statement (plus $1,200 of dealer crap) and followed up with negotiating and didn't change their number. Now if you had said "OK - we will take the 5k mark-up and we don't want that dealer added crap" and they said no, you would have a better argument in my mind. But even then - they told you the mark-up was going to be 4-6k upfront and they were right in the middle of that.

You didn't mention it so I assume you easily got your deposit back, right?

Btw, I think it's funny you said you had leverage. You had zero leverage (which is what you found out). They were honoring their agreement to a T. THEY had the leverage (which you also found out) - namely someone (or two) ready to buy it (presumably) for the same deal they were offering you (or at least close).

Yes we did receive the deposit back. They told me that markup was in the middle of those numbers but they said it was negotiable. That's where I find fault in their language. Sure it's not written in a document stating there is markup and is negotiable but had we known it was nonnegotiable from the get-go, we wouldn't have wasted our time placing a deposit and waiting 2 weeks to talk numbers when they clearly baited us.

Not sure what agreement you're talking about when there was none to begin with. Please, show me where I said that in the post. The salesperson said we signed something but we never did. Trying to pull some bs that we agreed to pay markup is just slimy.

And no we did have leverage. There was a car in San Francisco, same exact spec but in Halo White (which was extra for that color just like Track bRed) but with a $2k markup. We went to Santa Monica since it's closer to us and wanted to support a local business rather than buy elsewhere.

You can argue that they had leverage when we found out that there were customers willing to pay that $6.2k markup. That's when I realized that deposit was just to be in line to pay that markup.

I'm sure you understand this is a desirable car, especially in MT and the car market is at an all-time high which gives dealers the advantage to add any magic number to sell the car. Along with it, people are paying the markups which gives dealers even more incentive to keep adding markups. It's just a shitty time for anyone, be it used or new to purchase a car.

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by juenedgi

Yes we did receive the deposit back. They told me that markup was in the middle of those numbers but they said it was negotiable. That's where I find fault in their language. Sure it's not written in a document stating there is markup and is negotiable but had we known it was nonnegotiable from the get-go, we wouldn't have wasted our time placing a deposit and waiting 2 weeks to talk numbers when they clearly baited us.

Not sure what agreement you're talking about when there was none to begin with. Please, show me where I said that in the post. The salesperson said we signed something but we never did. Trying to pull some bs that we agreed to pay markup is just slimy.

And no we did have leverage. There was a car in San Francisco, same exact spec but in Halo White (which was extra for that color just like Track bRed) but with a $2k markup. We went to Santa Monica since it's closer to us and wanted to support a local business rather than buy elsewhere.

You can argue that they had leverage when we found out that there were customers willing to pay that $6.2k markup. That's when I realized that deposit was just to be in line to pay that markup.

I'm sure you understand this is a desirable car, especially in MT and the car market is at an all-time high which gives dealers the advantage to add any magic number to sell the car. Along with it, people are paying the markups which gives dealers even more incentive to keep adding markups. It's just a shitty time for anyone, be it used or new to purchase a car.

So wait, you are complaining about a win-win (you get the car you want from a closer dealer at the price you want for a reasonable markup; the dealer gets to sell their car to someone willing to pay the higher markup they are asking for)???

As for leverage, I still don't think you fully grasp what that term means. Assuming they were telling the truth, they were more than happy to sell the car to you or the guy they could call-up and have in there 20 minutes later to buy at the price you were unwilling to. You had no leverage.

Finally, you are correct - it is a bad time to buy cars, particularly new or lightly used. But it is a great time to sell cars, particularly new or lightly used - which is a situation I took full advantage of in selling my lightly used 2020 (well 33,000 miles) BRZ.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

As for leverage, I still don't think you fully grasp what that term means. .

and if I recall the mark up was not $6200. Part of that was for add ons. Not the same as markup as you are actually receiving something for the price.

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

and if I recall the mark up was not $6200. Part of that was for add ons. Not the same as markup as you are actually receiving something for the price.

I love that movie - so quotable. And that's probably my favorite quote.

Although this one is pretty great too -

"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia,' but only slightly less well-known is this: 'Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line!"

Wallace Shawn was perfect in that role.

[drivejumpfly]

I am not going to name dealership names yet, because there are some legal things I am still dealing with, but I had a similar issue with a dealership. Put down a sizable deposit with an agreement to purchase with a very very high markup for a car that was allocated and shortly on a ship. The day the car arrived at the dealership I get a call to actually do paperwork for financing. I asked to start the process earlier but they said not until the car came in. They presented me with pricing that included a markup that was 50% higher than my already agreed on markup, and when I told them I was not paying that they all of a sudden could not do a deal.

I passed up several offers that were cheaper than my deal because I was going to stick to my deposit. I have since reported the dealership to Toyota Corporate and received a response. I have also dealt with more than one dealership that quoted me a markup over the phone, and when the papers arrive they are thousands more than the markup price because of their nonsense add-ons.

I initially said I would give these "bad-talked about online" dealerships a chance to prove me wrong. At this point screw them all! I hope the rest of you with multiple deposits keep them in and when you get your keys in your hand you fight the rest of the dealers to very end for your refund. You are not doing anything worse than what they will do when your car finally arrives. I am historically a very proud Toyota owner, but I think I am quitting the race to get a GR86.

Would have been a very fun car from what I hear, but I'll enjoy another brand's fun car until the next fun car is released. Or maybe one of those "I'll talk to my manager guys" will have another deal fall through that is actually reasonable. I'm not holding my breathe. And no, I am still not touching a BRZ.

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by drivejumpfly

I am not going to name dealership names yet, because there are some legal things I am still dealing with, but I had a similar issue with a dealership. Put down a sizable deposit with an agreement to purchase with a very very high markup for a car that was allocated and shortly on a ship. The day the car arrived at the dealership I get a call to actually do paperwork for financing. I asked to start the process earlier but they said not until the car came in. They presented me with pricing that included a markup that was 50% higher than my already agreed on markup, and when I told them I was not paying that they all of a sudden could not do a deal.

I passed up several offers that were cheaper than my deal because I was going to stick to my deposit. I have since reported the dealership to Toyota Corporate and received a response. I have also dealt with more than one dealership that quoted me a markup over the phone, and when the papers arrive they are thousands more than the markup price because of their nonsense add-ons.

I initially said I would give these "bad-talked about online" dealerships a chance to prove me wrong. At this point screw them all! I hope the rest of you with multiple deposits keep them in and when you get your keys in your hand you fight the rest of the dealers to very end for your refund. You are not doing anything worse than what they will do when your car finally arrives. I am historically a very proud Toyota owner, but I think I am quitting the race to get a GR86.

Would have been a very fun car from what I hear, but I'll enjoy another brand's fun car until the next fun car is released. Or maybe one of those "I'll talk to my manager guys" will have another deal fall through that is actually reasonable. I'm not holding my breathe. And no, I am still not touching a BRZ.

If you had an agreed deal on price (hopefully written) and a deposit and the dealer backed out, the dealer is shitty, in the wrong, and hopefully you have some recourse.

[drivejumpfly]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

If you had an agreed deal on price (hopefully written) and a deposit and the dealer backed out, the dealer is shitty, in the wrong, and hopefully you have some recourse.

Yes, paperwork with out-the-door numbers signed by both parties. The thing to remember is none of that "pricing sheet" stuff no matter how elaborate it is matters. The final title paperwork is what matters and they don't let you sign that until the car is there. Recourse? You don't win with these types of dealerships until the attorney general's office gets involved due to multiple violations reported by multiple customers. The dealership is finally fined in the millions of dollars, and then you get your sliver, which is this case with this dealership.

Doesn't help you get your car when you want or need it though, so in the end you still lose. Fortunately there are plenty that have posted in other online sites about this specific dealership to help others avoid them.

[SidewaysTakumi]

Originally Posted by drivejumpfly

And no, I am still not touching a BRZ.

I hate that you've had to deal with all this mess. I'm curious as to your reasoning behind not going the BRZ direction?

[Locust]

People gonna laugh at me on this one... I saw a Neptune Blue in a parking garage last night and something was bugging me about the color. I walked around the car for a solid 10 minutes and then finally pulled my Evo up next to it to try and figure out what the heck was off...

I don't like the color. At all. I realized that it feels like it doesn't have the depth that some of the other colors have. Maybe the car needed a wax? I don't know. It seemed clean enough. Soooo I just called my dealership and now I'm waiting on a Raven Black or Halo White instead.