GR 86: Orders /Reservation /Waitlist Chat

[drivejumpfly]

I hate to hear that story. The sad part is I am expecting to hear the same thing when I go to pick up a GR86. I am not sure what I want to do yet if it comes to that, but I thought about having my camera rolling while they are lying about it so I can at least have a good video for YouTube. Of course they will be legally notified the camera is rolling.

Did you sign any paperwork when you deposited the money that stated your deposit amount, and the price of the car with or without a markup?

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by juenedgi

She then says there is a $5,000 mark up which is non-negotiable....

That's when I would have left... My time is more valuable than to put up with that crap regardless of "market pressures".

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by juenedgi

TLDR: Scummy dealer said mark-up is negotiable. Car arrived and mark up ($6,200) is non-negotiable. Waste of time.

Toyota of Santa Monica, California

Placed a refundable deposit last month for a GR86 Premium MT at this dealership. They said it will have mark-up but is negotiable. They told me it will be around $4-6,000 mark up. MSRP including destination and some accessories is $32,298. In hindsight, we should have asked for something in writing that the mark-up is negotiable but we were in a time crunch as my brother needed a car.

The car arrived 2 weeks ago so my brother and I went. It's for him, so I went with him to make sure he doesn't pay a crazy mark up. We told the salesperson to not drill holes in the front license plate. We get there and it has the front plate. I asked why and they said they did it at the harbor (which I thought was BS but sure).

We test drove the car. It was nice. Went into the salesperson's room and talked numbers. She then says there is a $5,000 mark up which is non-negotiable. Then an additional $1,200 for door edge guards and ceramic coating. A total of $6,200 mark up. Offered MSRP + $1,500 mark up but it would be a $500 markup due to Toyota rebates. They didn't budge at all for this.

We had leverage. We had a printout and even had our salesperson check online for the same exact car but in halo for a $2k markup in San Francisco. They asked why we didn't buy that car and we told them we wanted to buy local. Of course, SoCal dealers we've called all had mark-up (except Longo but long waiting list) and Santa Monica isn't any different. We thought they would at least match that mark-up and then use $1,000 in Toyota rebates making it only a $1,000 mark-up. So we negotiated; they just had impatient people ready to buy with that markup that we weren't willing to pay.

On top of that, I remind her that she said it's negotiable when we put in a deposit. She said the usual 'based on the car market and how a hot car it is, we can't remove mark up.' Ended up talking to the sales manager. He said it was a miscommunication. They both said they had 2 people ready to buy with the mark-up and approved for financials. Great waste of time. Salesperson even says we signed something that we agreed to a mark-up. I told her to show me and she couldn't find it. Take caution of this dealer. Definitely on my blacklist for Toyota dealerships.

Someone bought it since it wasn't on their site the next day.

We ended up finding a 2022 Corolla SE MT sedan in Mission Hills Toyota for MSRP. I told him to practice manual (if we had gotten the GR86, it would be his first manual car) on the Corolla and later in life get the GR86 so the clutch won't take too much of a beating.

I read everything from your perspective and can't find anything the dealer did wrong. They told you 4-6k mark-up with the very wiggly negotiable language. They gave you an offer with a $5,000 mark-up which already represented a "discount" of their high end statement (plus $1,200 of dealer crap) and followed up with negotiating and didn't change their number. Now if you had said "OK - we will take the 5k mark-up and we don't want that dealer added crap" and they said no, you would have a better argument in my mind. But even then - they told you the mark-up was going to be 4-6k upfront and they were right in the middle of that.

You didn't mention it so I assume you easily got your deposit back, right?

Btw, I think it's funny you said you had leverage. You had zero leverage (which is what you found out). They were honoring their agreement to a T. THEY had the leverage (which you also found out) - namely someone (or two) ready to buy it (presumably) for the same deal they were offering you (or at least close).

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

That's when I would have left... My time is more valuable than to put up with that crap regardless of "market pressures".

Every person that pays a mark up perpetuates the practice. If everybody walked away then they would just stop doing it but as long as there is even a chance that one person will pay it they are going to try. Honestly I would too if I was a dealer and I knew some fool would go for it because they just can't wait.
It is no different than people that are currently selling or trading their cars for near what they paid for them though so it works both ways.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Every person that pays a mark up perpetuates the practice. If everybody walked away then they would just stop doing it but as long as there is even a chance that one person will pay it they are going to try. Honestly I would too if I was a dealer and I knew some fool would go for it because they just can't wait.
It is no different than people that are currently selling or trading their cars for near what they paid for them though so it works both ways.

Oh yea, I completely understand why dealers do it. I mean why shouldn't they?

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Every person that pays a mark up perpetuates the practice. If everybody walked away then they would just stop doing it ...

That's no different than every single sales transaction that exists. If everyone said they aren't going to pay $4.15 for a gallon of gas, nobody would be able to sell a gallon of a gas at $4.15 or higher. It literally defines the concept of supply and demand.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

That's no different than every single sales transaction that exists. If everyone said they aren't going to pay $4.15 for a gallon of gas, nobody would be able to sell a gallon of a gas at $4.15 or higher. It literally defines the concept of supply and demand.

It is different. If some gas stations sold gas at MSRP $3 and some others at market demand $4.15 then people would stop going to the mark up stations.
It isn't like all the dealers are demanding a $5,000 markup. If they all were at the same markup then that would just be the "normal" price and walking away would do no good. They are not.

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

It is different. If some gas stations sold gas at MSRP $3 and some others at market demand $4.15 then people would stop going to the mark up stations.
It isn't like all the dealers are demanding a $5,000 markup. If they all were at the same markup then that would just be the "normal" price and walking away would do no good. They are not.

Not really - at least not in my mind. In fact, you make a pretty good point with your analogy.

Different gas stations charge different prices. A $5,000 mark-up on a 32k car is about a 15% markup. Some gas stations charge $3.60 while other are charging $4.15 (also 15% "markup") . Some people will pay the $4.15 because it's not worth their time/energy/convenience to try to save that 15%, some won't. I don't see any difference here.

As for Dealers charging over MSRP "screwing" the customers, I don't recall anybody who paid less than MSRP for their Gen1s talk about "screwing" the dealer.

I have no problem with shopping around, trying to find the best deal, and walking away from any deal you don't like. That's business - that's economics - heck, that's day to day life for me all the time. Just don't see the need/value in dropping these absurd slams/pejoratives for everyone just acting like they should in a free and open market.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

Different gas stations charge different prices. A $5,000 mark-up on a 32k car is about a 15% markup. Some gas stations charge $3.60 while other are charging $4.15 (also 15% "markup") . Some people will pay the $4.15 because it's not worth their time/energy/convenience to try to save that 15%, some won't. I don't see any difference here..

I'm all for free market, but what some car dealers are doing right now is borderline price gouging since I think pretty much everyone believes we are in some level of supply line crisis.

Raising prices during a period of emergency just because you can, and not because the net cost of goods has increased, is pretty much the definition of price gouging.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

Not really - at least not in my mind. In fact, you make a pretty good point with your analogy.

Different gas stations charge different prices. A $5,000 mark-up on a 32k car is about a 15% markup. Some gas stations charge $3.60 while other are charging $4.15 (also 15% "markup") . Some people will pay the $4.15 because it's not worth their time/energy/convenience to try to save that 15%, some won't. I don't see any difference here.

As for Dealers charging over MSRP "screwing" the customers, I don't recall anybody who paid less than MSRP for their Gen1s talk about "screwing" the dealer.

I have no problem with shopping around, trying to find the best deal, and walking away from any deal you don't like. That's business - that's economics - heck, that's day to day life for me all the time. Just don't see the need/value in dropping these absurd slams/pejoratives for everyone just acting like they should in a free and open market.

And some people will indeed pay the marked up prices on the cars.
My point would apply to your gas scenario as well. If those people willing to pay the marked up gas stopped and went to the stations selling it at "normal" prices then the practice of mark ups would end. As long as there are people willing to pay mark ups for whatever reason then they will exist.

If you were paying attention to what I have been saying you will see that although I in no way support these mark ups I am not slamming the dealerships for them either. Dealerships seem to get a bad rap no matter what they do. They sell an expensive commodity and people think they make huge amounts of money on each sale. They make very little on the actual sale. It is hilarious when you get these "I pulled a fast one on the dealer and got it for invoice price" guys. You didn't do shit bro. The dealership does this all day every day and you are not going to pull one over on them.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by drivejumpfly

Did you sign any paperwork when you deposited the money that stated your deposit amount, and the price of the car with or without a markup?

I did when I ordered my '23. I refused to pay a $1k markup. When the sales guy told me that, I stood up and said, "Thank you for your time today, but I'm not paying above MSRP for anything."

He came back from the sales manager about 90 seconds later and the markup was gone.

However, they did give me the stipulation I would have to finance through them. Which is fine, if they **** me around on the rate, I either won't take it, or I'll just refinance it with PenFed the next month.

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

That's when I would have left... My time is more valuable than to put up with that crap regardless of "market pressures".

Same here. I got up to leave over a $1k markup.

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

If you were paying attention to what I have been saying you will see that although I in no way support these mark ups I am not slamming the dealerships for them either.

I know we are on the same side here (sometimes almost by ourselves). Just talking through your scenario. I guess I still don't see the difference between some gas stations always charging 10 - 15% more than I know other stations are charging and the current dealer markup situation. Of course, I also don't understand why some of those stations always seem to have people filling up (although they aren't usually crazy busy).

I just go to Costco and get it for 30 -40 cents cheaper per gallon. And then I get there and see something else I don't understand. People waiting in-line for a pump when there is one open 2 down and on the right.

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I'm all for free market, but what some car dealers are doing right now is borderline price gouging since I think pretty much everyone believes we are in some level of supply line crisis.

Raising prices during a period of emergency just because you can, and not because the net cost of goods has increased, is pretty much the definition of price gouging.

And I've never been entirely clear on the difference between price gouging and supply and demand. Yes, it is probably based upon whether it is related to an increase in your cost. Having said that, pretty sure some dealers had to take a bath on a bunch of Gen1s near the end - they were all going for less than MSRP - some significantly. I don't remember anyone shedding a tear for the dealers then ...

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

And I've never been entirely clear on the difference between price gouging and supply and demand.

Primarily it has to do are we in "business as usual" or is the seller taking advantage of folks when there is some type of economic, weather or other disaster going on they are taking advantage of at the time of the sale.

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

Yes, it is probably based upon whether it is related to an increase in your cost. Having said that, pretty sure some dealers had to take a bath on a bunch of Gen1s near the end - they were all going for less than MSRP - some significantly. I don't remember anyone shedding a tear for the dealers then ...

If a dealer does sell a car at a significant loss then no I won't shed a tear for them. I doubt the dealers were taking some huge loss on the cars, unless they decided it made more sense to sell it than keep it in inventory for some accounting reason.

Heck the much beleaguered Aztec ended production in 2005 and Pontiac continued to sell the last ones on the lot all the way out to the 2007 model year.