SCCA Solo D Street discussion

[SCFD]

Originally Posted by cmiovino

Had them installed in 70 degree weather and now it's going to be 25 degrees the morning of our first event on Saturday. They'll be in a warm garage until I pull out in the morning. Think they'll be damaged driving 1 hour to the site?... then also sitting 2-3 hours while it's ~30 degrees and running them?

That's really cutting it close. It might be fine, but I don't know if I'd want to try it on expensive brand new tires.

[cmiovino]

Originally Posted by SCFD

That's really cutting it close. It might be fine, but I don't know if I'd want to try it on expensive brand new tires.

That's what I'm thinking. I know everyone in our region will be on their top tires. Some of them have 16 tires/wheels... per car. Literally basements full
I might slap my old RE-71R's on that have 200 runs. There's still some tread left. Some.

The forecast has lows only in the mid 40's the next 10 days after the event. Figures it's that morning...

[cmiovino]

First event was today. 25 degrees in the morning. I ended up putting my very worn RE's on to get there and swapped to the Yoks there. You can in fact fit all four mounted wheels and tires in the car, a jack, and the rest of your equipment.

The A052's need scrubbing in as I barely had 15 miles on them. First runs were at 38 degrees and the afternoon was near 50. I do have some major rust to brush off as I was well off the salaam cones and didn't carry enough speed into the first major corner as I was looking at the cone and not down range.

Best Run:

[SCFD]

Originally Posted by cmiovino

First event was today. 25 degrees in the morning. I ended up putting my very worn RE's on to get there and swapped to the Yoks there. You can in fact fit all four mounted wheels and tires in the car, a jack, and the rest of your equipment.

The A052's need scrubbing in as I barely had 15 miles on them. First runs were at 38 degrees and the afternoon was near 50. I do have some major rust to brush off as I was well off the salaam cones and didn't carry enough speed into the first major corner as I was looking at the cone and not down range.

Swapping tires at the event was probably the best way to go. Saves you the risk of driving them in freezing temps.

How does the A052 compare to the REs in terms of both steering feel and time?

[cmiovino]

Originally Posted by SCFD

How does the A052 compare to the REs in terms of both steering feel and time?

I'm really perplexed. Last year I ran 2 year old RE-71R's from my WRX. They had about 80 runs when I bolted them on and took them all the way to 200. They were decently good to about 175 and then dropped off.

I was either 1st or 2nd in CS. If you're in the upper 1/3 of overall PAX here, you're doing something very good here as it's an extremely competitive region with good drivers. Last year I was 28/100 once and usually stayed around the 30-40 percentile.

This was the first time out on the Yoks, not scrubbed in at all. Which now I wonder if these in particular need a good scrub in because the shop owner (fellow competitor) I get them installed at even came up to me and asked if I took them to a parking lot to do it ahead of time as he suggested. I didn't.

I was 64/108. I was hoping the new tires would give me that extra edge to consistently place in the top 20. I was a good 1-2 seconds off pace and really bummed. Last in DS - first place was a 32.9 and I had a 35.2... although this guy typically wins PAX overall at other regions. I couldn't even beat a CTR with it's stock tires and a non-top driver.

It didn't help that I only had one walk of the course (during the offical course walk) because I was doing tech in the morning. I normally walk the course 5-6 times, many times by myself and look for specific areas to get on the throttle sooner, brake late, etc. Also fumbling around in the morning swapping tires isn't a normal for me either.

I think my lines were all good. I compared my videos to the top drivers and the lines were good. I can only think I wasn't trusting the tires and/or the car. I'm usually smooth, but aren't aggressive enough or go flat out through sections I should.

It might be the tires too. I always thought tires needed a run or two to get the molding release off, but I've also just read it takes about an even for them to get sticky. Maybe it's that. Yet, some older guy (good driver) in an ES Miata showed up, new Yoks, not scrubbed in, and placed 23/108 in PAX.

I have to think it was just me and not knowing the tires. They are vague a bit. The steering feel is a bit 'off center' even on the highway. Transitions and slaloms you tend to not trust the car (even though you can). However once you load them up in a corner, they do stick very very well. I'd say most of the my time was lost not going flat out through the slalom / wiggly bits down the main straight.

I think the jury is still out on the tires. They're just different. Wear wise though, they barely look like they have any street miles. No graining or anything. Hoping they're a different animal at the second event... and I hope I get my own shit together, lol.

[steverife]

Just a heads up. The Yoks are loud. If your aggression is based off listening to tires, you may need to turn things up a bit.

[cmiovino]

What's the consensus on the 'best' front swaybar size for D street?

I've heard 22mm is too large leading to too much understeer and 20mm might be a good middle ground. After seeing some pictures of myself this weekend, there's a lot of body roll going on. Have to utilize as much of that front camber as I can get.

[SCFD]

What's everybody running for alignment? I was considering to try toe-out up front because that's what I've ran on other cars but decided on 0-toe all around for the BRZ.

Ended up with the following camber using a pair of factory crash bolts:
LF -1.2* / RF -1.1*
LR -1.8* / RR -1.6*

[RT-BRZ]

Originally Posted by cmiovino

....

I was either 1st or 2nd in CS. If you're in the upper 1/3 of overall PAX here, you're doing something very good here as it's an extremely competitive region with good drivers. Last year I was 28/100 once and usually stayed around the 30-40 percentile.

.....

Standard disclaimer: I usually make into the top 1/2 to 1/3 in OVR in the past on a crappy lot and I'm by far not an expert.

I don't know if I would put much stock in where you finished in this event. I haven't seen you drive before but your 1-2 shift seemed very slow. Maybe you were just off this time. I usually try to make sure those shifts are quick and smooth so that I don't have too much lag (mental and physical) in handling the course. My experience has been that if I'm off on that shift then I'm off overall.

Just take some of the things you learned about the tires this time, the fact that they are scrubbed in now and carry it to the next events. A change in tires wouldn't throw you off that much really so just chalk this one up to a bad day.

[cmiovino]

Originally Posted by RT-BRZ

Standard disclaimer: I usually make into the top 1/2 to 1/3 in OVR in the past on a crappy lot and I'm by far not an expert.

I don't know if I would put much stock in where you finished in this event. I haven't seen you drive before but your 1-2 shift seemed very slow. Maybe you were just off this time. I usually try to make sure those shifts are quick and smooth so that I don't have too much lag (mental and physical) in handling the course. My experience has been that if I'm off on that shift then I'm off overall.

Just take some of the things you learned about the tires this time, the fact that they are scrubbed in now and carry it to the next events. A change in tires wouldn't throw you off that much really so just chalk this one up to a bad day.

Thanks for the input. I had a much better day at our second event at this location (4th for the year in total). The tires did come to life after the first event.

I picked up a co-driver and paired the videos side by side. He does hillclimbs and a lot of autox in the past, but is getting back into it. You're 100% right by the 1-2 shift comment. He was a good amount ahead after the shift (pause the video to see). I'm actually new to manuals in the last year and don't have it down to 100% muscle memory yet, as other drivers do.

Here's the comparison video:
https://youtu.be/xaT***VK3kU

I ended up around 40th in PAX out of 100, but I'm pretty sure we were pushing the limit of the car as is. Our top 20 in PAX is usually stacked locally. Hell, Sam Strano was there, Alex Piehl (STH champ, HS prosolo champ), Mike Ferchak (CS champ in an FRS a while back)... plus tons of other crazy good drivers. We were both within 0.2 for clean runs and he would have had me by 0.2 if not for a cone on another run. I asked his feedback on the car and he said the tire pressures were dialed in (37/34 on Yoks) and a front swaybar might help a bit (currently stock). Other than that, there might have been a high 34 in it with better drivers, but certainly not he mid-33's Alex Piehl or even low 34's the other CTRs were running. I have to admit, the CTR is just a quick car. However, I did end up beating 3 of them, just not the other 4 lol. I was pretty pumped I managed to edge out a guy with multiple national wins back in the day in a DS CTR by literally 0.02.

[cmiovino]

Originally Posted by SCFD

What's everybody running for alignment? I was considering to try toe-out up front because that's what I've ran on other cars but decided on 0-toe all around for the BRZ.

Ended up with the following camber using a pair of factory crash bolts:
LF -1.2* / RF -1.1*
LR -1.8* / RR -1.6*

I'm at 1.2* in the front (max) and 1.4* rear. OEM camber bolts up front, even with someone sitting in the driver's seat (1.1* without).

Zero toe all around as I didn't have a good baseline for what I wanted it to do. I ran 1/8" up front in my WRX to get better turn in.

It might be 100% personal preference, but I've found the BRZ to be on point at zero toe all around. The rear end can still get out if you provoke it. Some STX guys run a bit in the rear to get more rotation, but I don't think it's necessary and only hurts your confidence chucking it around a bit.

[RT-BRZ]

@cmiovino

I'm glad things are improving. Being relatively new to a manual definitely can cause some delay. In fact, you would be surprised at how much time you can shave off with a good launch and a good 1-2 shift. Aside from the actual time, there is also the tempo that it sets.

As for the Type-R, I consider it to be in the wrong class personally. While weight has a significant impact on overall performance, there are always cases where added power can definitely fill in the gap lost to excess weight and it's my opinion that the Type-R has pulled that off. It might be different if the added power were aftermarket but Honda has a lot of engineering talent and they aren't slouches. It's just one of the weaknesses in the SCCA classing system (again, just my opinion).

[Balefire]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

So it seems that the 2021 rules have removed the BRZ Performance Pack from CS and dropped it to DS with the base models. The tS stays in CS.

Thoughts? Does this mean base models can upgrade to PP shocks, and brakes?

Considering the BRZ for my young teenager son as a teenager DD as well as a car for he and I to autox together.
so that's CS or DS.
i realize the Mazda Miata / S2000 in CS and the Civic Type R in DS are the class leaders but we need to work on our skills first.
but i'd like to minimize our losses.
how far off the pace is the BRZ Ts in CS and the BRZ w/ PP in DS?

and what STI options were factory / port installed and SCCA street legal? STI springs? STI wheels? STI short shifter? STI ground effects?

thanks!

ps. my son has had some autox karting experience. he may beat me pretty quickly, lol

[Biggins]

Originally Posted by Balefire

Considering the BRZ for my young teenager son as a teenager DD as well as a car for he and I to autox together.
so that's CS or DS.
i realize the Mazda Miata / S2000 in CS and the Civic Type R in DS are the class leaders but we need to work on our skills first.
but i'd like to minimize our losses.
how far off the pace is the BRZ Ts in CS and the BRZ w/ PP in DS?

and what STI options were factory / port installed and SCCA street legal? STI springs? STI wheels? STI short shifter? STI ground effects?

thanks!

ps. my son has had some autox karting experience. he may beat me pretty quickly, lol

SSC is probably your best option with a 2013-2016 FR-S/BRZ. Everyone has the same equipment and you can see how well you improve each event.


It depends on your region's competition whether you will be "competitive" in CS or DS. A BRZ tS still will not be as good of an option as an FR-S/86 with the TRD parts in CS which will not be as good as the RX-8/S2000 which will not be as good as an ND2 MX-5. You will learn and may be competitive if your region does not have any/many of these cars that are well driven in CS. DS is the same story as CS but much more course dependency that will 90% of time favor the high horsepower rally cars. I ran DS for a couple years but hated the ride height of my car and switched back to CS this year (TRD FR-S).