Do sticky tires make the car feel slower?

[churchx]

4 is available on tirerack too, i guess you might have missed due presetting specific tire sizing. For 17" weirdly it comes from 235 width and up. Well, if you do have 4S available, just get it. Only slight con a bit less comfort. I don't have that option in EU
As for Cup2 .. yeah, i also saw that vid of Cup2 on DD car. I guess my usage case is different, i rank up 10K miles. And even on track, if it happens to rain that day, i wish for tires to work fine on wet track too. In short - be universal tire, closest to one-tire-does everything, dd, some track, wet track. MPS4S in my mind seems best compromise of that type.

[JD001]

Originally Posted by churchx

4 is available on tirerack too, i guess you might have missed due presetting specific tire sizing. For 17" weirdly it comes from 235 width and up. Well, if you do have 4S available, just get it. Only slight con a bit less comfort. I don't have that option in EU
As for Cup2 .. yeah, i also saw that vid of Cup2 on DD car. I guess my usage case is different, i rank up 10K miles. And even on track, if it happens to rain that day, i wish for tires to work fine on wet track too. In short - be universal tire, closest to one-tire-does everything, dd, some track, wet track. MPS4S in my mind seems best compromise of that type.

I had an Exige, it used to wear A048r, again I didn't use it much however when I did we got caught out in the rain, even track days in the rain. The UK weather being very unpredictable therefore getting rain is a high probability. Didn't find them too difficult in the rain, just a bit of care and no crazy throttle openings as the back would step out..

[grumpysnapper]

Originally Posted by ItsReiko

Honest question lol. From the beginning of time I have heard online that sticky tires are the best and what makes the car fun and fast. But hear me out..

My main concern is the affect they have getting up to speed from a stop on day to day driving. My thought process is since this is not a fast car to begin with, I wouldn't want to add more resistance getting up to speed at stoplights etc. Would stickier tires make this car feel slower in that sense? If so, by what extent?

I do understand that grippier tires will let you corner faster and with more confidence, but my main concern is straight line feel on day to day driving.

Tires I'm looking at are Continental ExtremeContact Sports and MP4S, coming from OEM tires and plan to stick to stock 215/45r17 size.

Tyres are a minefield of differing opinions, but also ultimately the %100 percent most important part of a car.
All tyres are a compromise in one way or another, and its the compromises that you personally are most comfortable with that matter.

Like you said, our cars as standard are not at all quick in a straight line so in terms of acceleration any effect will be negligible... however braking could possibly be much improved.

I personally prefer a less "sticky" tyre, allowing the car to move around a little more.
For me too much mechanical grip is less fun.

A real complication is that "stickiness" or "grippiness" is not at all straightforward. How/why a tyre loses or regains grip in a given circumstance (and how it feeds that information back to you) is super important....and very subjective.

[RToyo86]

Sticky rubber can make the car feel less playful at slower speeds around town.

It doesn't make the car feel slower, but maybe less fun if sliding roundabouts is your thing.
I can still make the rear end move a bit on PS4S, but the grip level is noticeably higher. Instead I end up carving corners and chasing perfect apex.

Sticky rubber on stock springs will result in you being on the bumpstops more often. I noticed it the first season I mounted the PS4S. Since I've added RCE Yellows they seem well matched to the Michelins grip in corners.

[EAGLE5]

Feeling fast is subjective. Some people think squealing tires feel going fast. Others think g forces feel fast. Personally, I think squealing tires means fun, and going fast is an unnecessary part of that. I've had more fun in my FRS than in faster cars, but I've certainly gotten home faster with more grip in other cars. Slip > Grip.

[VTEC]

Originally Posted by ItsReiko

Honest question lol. From the beginning of time I have heard online that sticky tires are the best and what makes the car fun and fast. But hear me out..

My main concern is the affect they have getting up to speed from a stop on day to day driving. My thought process is since this is not a fast car to begin with, I wouldn't want to add more resistance getting up to speed at stoplights etc. Would stickier tires make this car feel slower in that sense? If so, by what extent?

I do understand that grippier tires will let you corner faster and with more confidence, but my main concern is straight line feel on day to day driving.

Tires I'm looking at are Continental ExtremeContact Sports and MP4S, coming from OEM tires and plan to stick to stock 215/45r17 size.

The added rolling resistance going from Primacy tires to ECS to MP4S is so small, you will not notice any lag in acceleration. But you may see a dip in fuel economy.

If you have a manual transmission, you will accelerate faster with the sticky tires. Because you can bring up the clutch faster and at higher rpm without spinning the tires. If you do choose the spin the tires, like at a drag strip or autocross, then it's an even bigger difference. I'm using a pretty sticky 200TW tire and when they're nice and hot, I can dump the clutch at 5000 rpm and it just shoots off the line. Now the overall 0-60 time isn't going to drop a whole lot since the launch only affects the first few feet off the starting line. But it is a hell of a lot more fun

[Ernest72]

My experience is:

Summer setup Michelin PS4s - great grip car feels and handles great.
Winter setup BFG comp 2 A/S - good grip car feels and handles great but that back end can slide a bit when pushed.

The winter setup can be more fun sometimes.

[HaXx]

The fact that you guys are debating cup2 on a frs/brz is mad, aren't those OE on the 918 Spyder?

[JD001]

Originally Posted by HaXx

The fact that you guys are debating cup2 on a frs/brz is mad, aren't those OE on the 918 Spyder?

Further reading, now heading towards Goodyear Eagles F1 Asymmetric 5. They seem to be getting a good review, apparently more "sporty" in character than the MSP4. And that's what I want a more "sporty" feel.. Cup2 will be too extreme for what I need... Michelin confirmed that they have no plans to bring the MPS4S into the UK. Interestingly MPSS available in 205/45 r17... Which can fit our OEM wheel..

[churchx]

Or you can also consider Conti premiumcontact6 street offering. Or "past" models like PSS, AD08R. From cheap side, i hear people speaking well about gt radial champiro SX2.

[JD001]

Originally Posted by churchx

Or you can also consider Conti premiumcontact6 street offering. Or "past" models like PSS, AD08R. From cheap side, i hear people speaking well about gt radial champiro SX2.

Just ordered the GYF1A5.. hopefully they'll be what I'm seeking and an improvement over the Primacy.. if all goes to plan they should be on the car for the 17th July.

[leevanf]

I share your concern. Like you, my main concern was improving what can be improved, without veering too far away from the OEM Driving dynamics. Mainly for a DD and occasional sprited drive.

Speaking in the context of acceleration alone, i realized the best acceleration factors would be sufficient grip + lightweight. Since our cars arent too powerful, you wont need extreme grip levels.

Cornering is a whole other story as cornering involves more suspension-and-tire dynamics. And unlike straight-line acceleration, since every corner is different, there are multiple factors and tire mixes that can be decided upon.

Going back to the acceleration issue, my choice was basically to go with Hankook Ventus V12 Evo2’s in stock size simply because they are 2 lbs lighter than stock, summer tires (i live in a tropical country), has better, but not ad08 levels of extreme performance grip, which is basically sufficient for this cars stock power, and are relatively cheap. I would have gotten PS4s as they are in a close grip category, however here in asia, the PS4s available to us are made in Thailand which are outrageously heavier than OEM! (23 lbs vs 21 lbs) The imported US and Euro versions are the 19 lb ones. The max-ultra perf summers on tirerack are a good selection.

I honestly cant say if i accelerate better, but i think with tires, its not about accelerating faster, but more about being able to improve grip without any penalty on acceleration and ride quality. That for me is an example of improve what can be improved without negatively affecting driving dynamics. I cant easily bust the tail out as oem anymore, but my fuel eco hasnt changed much, i can go faster on corners, my ride quality is actually better too. (I shed 7lbs per corner with my wheel and tire combo all whole staying within oem specs)

So, in straightline only POV, i think the chances of a sticky tire feeling slower has more to do with the tire weight/size than the compound. Ideally you want a sticky-enough but lightweight tire. Which usually, are the ones that arent too wide either.


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[Oxyg3n]

Originally Posted by leevanf

I share your concern. Like you, my main concern was improving what can be improved, without veering too far away from the OEM Driving dynamics. Mainly for a DD and occasional sprited drive.

Speaking in the context of acceleration alone, i realized the best acceleration factors would be sufficient grip + lightweight. Since our cars arent too powerful, you wont need extreme grip levels.

Cornering is a whole other story as cornering involves more suspension-and-tire dynamics. And unlike straight-line acceleration, since every corner is different, there are multiple factors and tire mixes that can be decided upon.

Going back to the acceleration issue, my choice was basically to go with Hankook Ventus V12 Evo2’s in stock size simply because they are 2 lbs lighter than stock, summer tires (i live in a tropical country), has better, but not ad08 levels of extreme performance grip, which is basically sufficient for this cars stock power, and are relatively cheap. I would have gotten PS4s as they are in a close grip category, however here in asia, the PS4s available to us are made in Thailand which are outrageously heavier than OEM! (23 lbs vs 21 lbs) The imported US and Euro versions are the 19 lb ones. The max-ultra perf summers on tirerack are a good selection.

I honestly cant say if i accelerate better, but i think with tires, its not about accelerating faster, but more about being able to improve grip without any penalty on acceleration and ride quality. That for me is an example of improve what can be improved without negatively affecting driving dynamics. I cant easily bust the tail out as oem anymore, but my fuel eco hasnt changed much, i can go faster on corners, my ride quality is actually better too. (I shed 7lbs per corner with my wheel and tire combo all whole staying within oem specs)

So, in straightline only POV, i think the chances of a sticky tire feeling slower has more to do with the tire weight/size than the compound. Ideally you want a sticky-enough but lightweight tire. Which usually, are the ones that arent too wide either.


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Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. That is very odd that the Mp4s have different weight specifications depending on the country. I plan to stay on stock tire size so the 2lb decrease over stock tires could very well offset the stickier compound on day to day acceleration. I'll look forward to switching them out.

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[churchx]

Maybe different weight comes simply from different sizing/load rating offered in different countries. Obviously some tires that are rated for heavier vehicles, may weight more due beefier sidewalls for example. Check speed & load indexes, if it's really the "same" tire, not by sizing alone.