New RACING short shifter from Individual Racing Parts

[Tor]

Originally Posted by redlined600

I think his statement was worded slightly ambiguous. What he means is that the spring helps the shifter return to center when not in gear. The stock lever returns to center when not in gear but is controlled by the springs in the trans.

That's the way I understood it too. So maybe I was rather me that wasn't quite clear in my reply?

I am not so sure if the stock shifter centers laterally, though. Longitudinally for sure. In any case, the IRP shifter won't be different to the stock shifter in this respect since it replaces the stock lever.

Anyway, the way I see it shifting with the gate e.g. 3rd to 4th would be one movement so I don't see why it would make a difference if the shifter has a spring or not in that case. I could imagine the spring is there to make it easier to "feel the center" if going across gates like from 4th to 5th. Still, I don't see it why it would be necessary as you would apply force to the right and up simultaneously, causing the shifter to slide over neutral up into 5th. Going the other way e.g. from 5th to 4th and lateral centering won't help much, as the Longitudinally centering of the gearbox is more important to find the middle gate where there are no stops.

That's what I meant with I'll keep it in mind when finish installing it and I get to try it out. Then I'll keep in mind (without having tried the CAE shifter) if I think it would have been nice with a centering force or if it doesn't matter.

Keep in mind the shifters appear to be an entirely different design. The most obvious difference is that the IRP shifter mounts opposite of the CAE (with the assembly towards the rear, CAE forwards). It could be that there are so many other differences in geometry that what one may require, the other doesn't.

Anyway, the easiest way to find out is to try it out.

I got the center console out tonight but got stuck because I don't have a 2 mm punch to take off the stock reverse lockout assembly. Hopefully, that should be in the mail tomorrow. The car is sitting on jack stands waiting for me to continue the install. Unfortunately, I have to work late shifts the next two days, so I don't think I'll be done before the weekend anyway.




The new rubber boot seems to be a waste of 15€$:

[Vracer111]

In regards to the bracket, I was looking at the picture on the website when making my post, which I see is differrnt from your pictures:

http://images.ttcdn.co/media/i/produ...jpeg?size=2000

[redlined600]

Originally Posted by Tor

That's the way I understood it too. So maybe I was rather me that wasn't quite clear in my reply?

I am not so sure if the stock shifter centers laterally, though. Longitudinally for sure. In any case, the IRP shifter won't be different to the stock shifter in this respect since it replaces the stock lever.]

Sure it does, pull it to the side, it will return to center. I'm guessing the cae shifter had the spring for crisper feeling and/or it may need it due to the increased leverage.

[Tor]

Originally Posted by redlined600

Sure it does, pull it to the side, it will return to center. I'm guessing the cae shifter had the spring for crisper feeling and/or it may need it due to the increased leverage.

Yes exactly. Ambiguous choice of words again with lat/long. To clarify again...

Yes, sideways the stock shifter does center = left/right, east/west (is what I meant with "Longitudinally").

The spring of the CAE shifter must work up/down (= north/south or "laterally") from the way it's positioned - which is why I am wondering what the purpose is... Sideways centering seems much more important to catch the middle gates 3rd and 4th. And the transmission itself takes care of that. Perhaps it serves another purpose. Maybe it's simply there to keep the lever erect in neutral? Anyway, that must be for those who actually have the CAE shifter to properly answer.

[redlined600]

Originally Posted by Tor

Yes exactly. Ambiguous choice of words again with lat/long. To clarify again...

Yes, sideways the stock shifter does center = left/right, east/west (is what I meant with "Longitudinally").

The spring of the CAE shifter must work up/down (= north/south or "laterally") from the way it's positioned - which is why I am wondering what the purpose is... Sideways centering seems much more important to catch the middle gates 3rd and 4th. And the transmission itself takes care of that. Perhaps it serves another purpose. Maybe it's simply there to keep the lever erect in neutral? Anyway, that must be for those who actually have the CAE shifter to properly answer.

Longitudinal is the length of the car.

There are two springs, one that locates the shifter laterally(side to side) and one that keeps the reverse lockout engaged.


Just trying to clarify

[The Racers Line]

Originally Posted by Tor

That's the way I understood it too. So maybe I was rather me that wasn't quite clear in my reply?

I am not so sure if the stock shifter centers laterally, though. Longitudinally for sure. In any case, the IRP shifter won't be different to the stock shifter in this respect since it replaces the stock lever.

Anyway, the way I see it shifting with the gate e.g. 3rd to 4th would be one movement so I don't see why it would make a difference if the shifter has a spring or not in that case. I could imagine the spring is there to make it easier to "feel the center" if going across gates like from 4th to 5th. Still, I don't see it why it would be necessary as you would apply force to the right and up simultaneously, causing the shifter to slide over neutral up into 5th. Going the other way e.g. from 5th to 4th and lateral centering won't help much, as the Longitudinally centering of the gearbox is more important to find the middle gate where there are no stops.

That's what I meant with I'll keep it in mind when finish installing it and I get to try it out. Then I'll keep in mind (without having tried the CAE shifter) if I think it would have been nice with a centering force or if it doesn't matter.

Keep in mind the shifters appear to be an entirely different design. The most obvious difference is that the IRP shifter mounts opposite of the CAE (with the assembly towards the rear, CAE forwards). It could be that there are so many other differences in geometry that what one may require, the other doesn't.

Anyway, the easiest way to find out is to try it out.

I got the center console out tonight but got stuck because I don't have a 2 mm punch to take off the stock reverse lockout assembly. Hopefully, that should be in the mail tomorrow. The car is sitting on jack stands waiting for me to continue the install. Unfortunately, I have to work late shifts the next two days, so I don't think I'll be done before the weekend anyway.




The new rubber boot seems to be a waste of 15€$:

Excited to see your impressions.

Why do you need to remove the reverse lockout assembly?

[M1K3]

Originally Posted by Tor

That's the way I understood it too. So maybe I was rather me that wasn't quite clear in my reply?

We are on the same page, I understood you perfectly and I feel like you understood me perfectly.

You are correct in that the IRP Shifter should work like the stock shifter using the shift springs in the transmission to return the shifter to the neutral position. As for the CAE shifter, the purpose of the centering spring is to increase that spring tension which you feel from the shift springs in the trans. This is sort of the same idea as when you upgrade the stock shift springs to an aftermarket brand like MTEC MTEC Shift Springs, which I also have installed in my transmission. If you have not installed these in your transmission you might want to consider doing so while you are under there installing the shifter.

This is why I made my original post in that I wish I could compare the two to see how much of a difference it makes. Believe me there is a reason CAE puts that centering spring in there, it makes shifts "Tight Like a Tiger" and that is the best way I can describe it. My question is how far off is this IRP shifter from that feeling. Lets me just put it this way, before the CAE shifter I had the Kartboy shifter and it was awesome at reducing the length of the shift throws compared to the stock shifter (it was a great short shifter), but the feel of the shift throws felt like stock. The CAE Shifter's shift throws on the other hand feels a million times better than the stock shifter, and once again this is why I wish I could compare the feel of the two shifters. I hope that made sense and I am not too ambiguous...LOL

[Spartarus]

The biggest thing that bothered me about the CAE shifter vs this one is the CAE centering spring centers the shifter to the chassis, and the internal springs center the shifter to the transmission.

If the two were even slightly misaligned, because the transmission does move in its mounts, even if theyre stiffened... You would have an awful shifting experience.

[Tor]

Progress!

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjfxWNxU_CE"]IRP-Germany GT86 shifter install (pt 1) - YouTube[/ame]

[The Racers Line]

Sorry to high-jack this thread even more, but The Racers Line is becoming the first US distributor for IRP!

5 Shifters are coming for the first run, and 2 are already spoken for. I expect them around the end of November. If you are interested in one, please get in touch with me via PM or Email.
@Tor thank you very much for making known, a product that we might have never seen in the US, if you hadn't posted about it here!

[Tor]

Install and test drive...

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nvwAvQ35lo"]IRP-Germany GT86 shifter install and testdrive (pt 2) - YouTube[/ame]

[endless_pain]

Originally Posted by Tor

Install and test drive...

In the video, when shifting, are you taking it easy? It looks like a two stage shift, more pronounced than the CAE.
Seems that the shifter moves under acceleration. Maybe the centering spring in the CAE is what prevents this as mine has no movement.
Also the shifts seem a tad longer. I'll take a video this weekend from your same vantage point. Where did you position your camera?


So far seems like a really good shifter for the value. Thanks for sharing.


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzKAzLbinmA"]NASA VIR OktoberFAST - BRZ TTC 1st place run - YouTube[/ame]

[Tor]

Originally Posted by endless_pain

In the video, when shifting, are you taking it easy? It looks like a two stage shift, more pronounced than the CAE.

Yes, I am taking it totally easy. I read the CAE shifter requires a dedicated shift? With the IRP you can shift very casually. Saying this totally unbiased as to what is better.

Seems that the shifter moves under acceleration. Maybe the centering spring in the CAE is what prevents this as mine has no movement.

Or maybe it has to do with bushings? I put in a transmission bushing insert from SuperPro SPF3879K. The reason for that choice was delivery time. They advertise that it has a progressive hardness, so they don't provide a shore rating. To me, it looked pretty soft. As you can almost see from this picture (stolen from the internet), when pressing upon the sides it's easy to bend. I can tell you that it bend that tiny bit without putting any force on it, and a lot more when you force it.



I'm okay with not having a super hard mount since I think it's a bad idea with stock engine mounts. But I am wondering if this serves any purpose at all? What do you think?

The rest of the drivetrain bushings are stock.

Also the shifts seem a tad longer. I'll take a video this weekend from your same vantage point. Where did you position your camera?

It could be. I think the IRP is a tad shorter too. It seems the top of the CAE is above the lower edge of the radio? I think the CAE shifter looks fantastic. I don't necessarily think these are competing products. If you want uncompromising best of the best at a premium price, go CAE. If you want to retain a somewhat stock look (and perhaps comfort of still being able to shift casually?) at a more reasonable price, while still getting most of the benefits of a short shifter (though may not the ultimate feel), go IRP. Maybe it's kind of like: "Do I get KW or Moton dampers?".

The camera was on a suction cup in the upper rear corner of the passenger side window.

(Nice video too, by the way!! )
----


Another couple of notes to the video above. As again I had finger trouble with the camera and didn't record a couple of sequences (like showing the SuperPro flex).

- First of all the assembly of the shifter. The shifter itself is secured to it's mount with 4 bolts which I gave a drop of Loctite each. The small round boot at the base of the shifter itself is secured to the flat aluminum plate with a bracket and 2 bolts with self-locking nuts. The aluminum plate is sandwiched between the mount and the transmission tunnel when tightened down. The spring effect of the boot pushes the plate away from the mount when not tightend down, so that's why it looks a bit dangly.

- Upon more driving, the rattle seems to come from the base of the shifter. I tried greasing the reverse lockout mechanism up pretty excessively and it didn't help (not a viable solution to anyone wishing to run without the center console anyway). What I am going to do:

1) Remove the rubber "seal" I made from the old shift boot. I would have thought it would be dampening vibrations, but who knows - could be opposite that it allows to shifter to vibrate.

2) Once off, I am going to check out the shifter itself to see if there is anything loose or has an excessive free play.

3) I read that someone who had the rattle from the stock shifter replaced the washer that goes under the clip in the lever/rod linkage with a thicker one. Looking at the video, that clip slid in very easy. I will look into it.

4) If that doesn't help, investigate if it's a bushing issue. Maybe time for other engine mounts? I had shifter rattle stock as well but not until above 5000 rpm. And not as pronounced. Pretty disappointed that it didn't go away and I still have to deal with it.

Also, I ordered some M-Tec springs equivalents (thanks for the advice @M1K3 ) that are made here locally (again because of delivery time). Until I get those and have time to install them I will live with the rattle. No point in taking all apart twice. That will probably not be until next week sometime.

[endless_pain]

Originally Posted by Tor

Yes, I am taking it totally easy. I read the CAE shifter requires a dedicated shift? With the IRP you can shift very casually. Saying this totally unbiased as to what is better.

Shifting for me is more precise than dedicated. Yes, you need a bit more "force" to get it in, but it is just a tad bit more than the oem.

Originally Posted by Tor

Or maybe it has to do with bushings? I put in a transmission bushing insert from SuperPro SPF3879K. The reason for that choice was delivery time. They advertise that it has a progressive hardness, so they don't provide a shore rating. To me, it looked pretty soft. As you can almost see from this picture (stolen from the internet), when pressing upon the sides it's easy to bend. I can tell you that it bend that tiny bit without putting any force on it, and a lot more when you force it.

Could be. I have both inserts on the transmission mount(aluminum and whiteline's) and cusco motor mounts.

Originally Posted by Tor

I'm okay with not having a super hard mount since I think it's a bad idea with stock engine mounts. But I am wondering if this serves any purpose at all? What do you think?

@Vracer111 commented: "Also, it is highly recommended to have stiffer engine and transmission mounts with this shifter due to it's precise and positive shifting nature." I however have not thought about it to have an opinion since I already had the mounts. Maybe he can chime in.

Originally Posted by Tor

It could be. I think the IRP is a tad shorter too. It seems the top of the CAE is above the lower edge of the radio? I think the CAE shifter looks fantastic. I don't necessarily think these are competing products. If you want uncompromising best of the best at a premium price, go CAE. If you want to retain a somewhat stock look (and perhaps comfort of still being able to shift casually?) at a more reasonable price, while still getting most of the benefits of a short shifter (though may not the ultimate feel), go IRP. Maybe it's kind of like: "Do I get KW or Moton dampers?".

I hope you didn't take it as me saying mine is best. Not my intention. I think this a great value with all those positive characteristics that you mentioned being big pluses. Just thought to give the board as much information as possible so possible buyers can make an informed decision.