(2015) 200+ Treadwear Autocross Street Tire Thread

[Wepeel]

Originally Posted by Lithium

some PCA dude

How'd I guess.

[chucky12012]

Originally Posted by Wheeljack

It looks like the Bridgestones are the pretty much the tire to have if you're only doing autocross. However, since I've moved to a place where I may be able to get a few track days in, I'd like to have some tires that will hold up to track abuse as well. It seems like the go to street tire for that is still the RS3, but some folks at the last local event I went to thought the Dunlop Z2SS would be better. I'm currently on Z2s now. They're great for a 40 degree autocross in March, but they need a garden sprayer in the Georgia summers. Are the Z2SS really that much better at heat management, or should I stick with my first instinct and get some RS3s in 225/45/17?

From my autocross experience running the Star Specs this year, they do seem noticeably more heat tolerant than the previous Z2. That being said, it isn't really hot out yet, but just my observation from the past couple of months.

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by Laloosh

And he also conducts tests that are somewhat useless and contradict what everyone says on here about pinching tires.

Andy conducted a test (on an STS Civic) that suggested certain 15" tire sizes for a certain tire model did not respond well to pinching. It's up to you to decide how relevant that is to a C street FRS (what most of the pinchers on this board run) that isn't running that tire model.

[Laloosh]

Originally Posted by renfield90

Andy conducted a test (on an STS Civic) that suggested certain 15" tire sizes for a certain tire model did not respond well to pinching. It's up to you to decide how relevant that is to a C street FRS (what most of the pinchers on this board run) that isn't running that tire model.

I know, hence me saying his tire tests are useless for this crowd. With the amount of time/effort/money these tests take I don't understand why they can't be relevant to today's autox crowd.


Pick a popular car (twin/s2000/fost/fist/wrx/whatever) Pick whatever tires you want to compare in stock size on stock wheels, and do the same but with oversized tires. I don't care that a 205 is faster on a 8inch wheel than a 7inch wheel, we all sort of knew that. But even if we didn't, Street guys simply don't have a choice on wheel widths to begin with so it is all rather irrelevant.

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by Laloosh

I know, hence me saying his tire tests are useless for this crowd. With the amount of time/effort/money these tests take I don't understand why they can't be relevant to today's autox crowd.


Pick a popular car (twin/s2000/fost/fist/wrx/whatever) Pick whatever tires you want to compare in stock size on stock wheels, and do the same but with oversized tires. I don't care that a 205 is faster on a 8inch wheel than a 7inch wheel, we all sort of knew that. But even if we didn't, Street guys simply don't have a choice on wheel widths to begin with so it is all rather irrelevant.

Tire Rack uses a late model 3 series for their tests - stock suspension, FR layout, 17" wheels with similar width to us, etc. From that perspective you can at least see the compound difference in sizes that are relevant to our interests.

Beyond that, Andy tests largely for himself and for those similarly situated to him. It doesn't really help him to test various pinching sizes on a CS FRS. A guy at GRM did mention they might look at doing different tests in the future in addition to Andy's, but Andy won't be running them.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by dwx

Andy Hollis does the testing and it's definitely fair testing, but the car they do the testing on isn't exactly representative of our cars.

I 100% agree that Andy's testing is fair and methodical, however, the results are only applicable to those who have similar premises as he does -- ie. a light weight FF car running on 15" wheels, under environmental conditions that are generally similar (seems like he does most of his test in the southern, warmer parts of the US, since that's where he is?).

For those of us in the PNW, Andy's recommendations are unfortunately not too applicable. It doesn't mean the testing or the data are poor though.

[Wheeljack]

The word about the RE71s being less than ideal for the track came from a Bridgestone rep, or so says one of our local fast guys who talked with the Bridgestone folks at the Dixie tour. My worry would be heat cycling the tires after two track events and then the tires fall off for the rest of the autocross season.

[cjd]

Someone has to try, and anyone with tires already will not be in any worse a spot. I look forward to reports on how the RE71R holds up to heat, and how it holds up over time.

[xwd]

The Crows Landing Pro is this weekend. Looks like they are done with the first set of runs. CS twin in the lead is on Bridgestones, 2nd is a MR2 on Hankooks, and 3/4 is a BRZ on Hankooks (they are on the board and said they are running them for the contingency).

Fastest STX car right now is on Bridgestones, but only .077 behind (and faster raw time but with a cone) is a BRZ on the Rival-S.

Should be good data coming out of the event. Other classes are kind of a tossup between the Rival-S and Bridgestone, HS leader is on Dunlops.

[Kostamojen]

Interesting, nobody was on Rival S's last weekend. Pretty quick time period to switch.

[xwd]

LOL I feel like I'm going crazy, now they show the STX results with no cars on BFGs. I was also almost positive the RX-8 leading CS now was on different tires in the morning as well and is now showing Bridgestones. He picked up an enormous amount of time between the morning and afternoon.

STX are 1-2 2015 WRXs. Those guys on the Bridgestones are pulling 1.7x 60' times compared to 2.3+ for the BRZ/FR-S. Hard to make up being down .6+ after the first 60'.

[Apex_BRZ]

Originally Posted by cjd

Someone has to try, and anyone with tires already will not be in any worse a spot. I look forward to reports on how the RE71R holds up to heat, and how it holds up over time.

I'll report back after Road America next weekend.

[Kostamojen]

Originally Posted by dwx

STX are 1-2 2015 WRXs. Those guys on the Bridgestones are pulling 1.7x 60' times compared to 2.3+ for the BRZ/FR-S. Hard to make up being down .6+ after the first 60'.

AWD yo

My old NA Impreza was certainly faster than the twins off the line despite being down ~40hp and way slower everywhere else.

[Jawnathin]

Sorry for the cross post, this conversation sorta got mixed up with the C Street stuff, so I'll chime in on both.

Really tough competition out there this weekend. Mike and Sean drove their FRS really well for the 2-3. First one I've seen with TRD parts or MCS shocks and it was not slow at all. Hard to tell where a BRZ/non-TRD FRS sits versus a TRD FRS. There was some time left out there on my BRZ and I might have been able to steal 3rd with a mistake-free run on the left course but I did not see myself catching 2nd place. Maybe a better driver can, but even with a dozen more runs, I still don't think I could have caught him. The one thing that is clear is that a TRD FRS has a lot of potential, especially when well driven like it was this weekend.

They did get pretty close to the RX8 but not enough. I think they are still tuning it so maybe they didn't get 100% out of it yet. I hear they compete against each other at locals, so it'll be interesting to see how the rest of their season progresses and if they can catch Adrian and his RX8. I think on a tighter and more transition heavy course, a 86 could keep up but on most courses and in general, an RX8 is going to be really tough to beat.

RX8 was on Bridgestones the whole time, he didn't swap. It rained the morning of Saturday, not much, but enough to effect grip with small puddles and damp sections of the course when we ran in Heat 2. It didn't seem bad, but less grip than the afternoon or Sunday. Maybe he overreacted to the damp conditions, maybe he was still tuning the car, but he definitely picked up the pace on the afternoon and laid down some really impressive times. Adrian is a great driver, very talented. He won the El Toro pro too. RX8 had better gearing for the course as there was two 60+ mph sections on course. 86s had to shift for both while I think the RX8 got away with only one shift.

The MR2 Turbo was no joke too. Driver is local-ish and he is also very good. Walked away with 3rd at El Toro. He is laying down some 1.8 60 foots vs the 86s 2.3~. Losing a half second before the first corner on a short course is not easy thing to overcome. In the videos when we lined up against the MR2, it was interesting to watch him just pull away from the start. Our cars really suck at launches, haha. No 86 seemed to do better than a 2.3ish. CS, STX, SM...

Regarding the tires, we brought both sets of tires with us. The plan for my codriver and I was to head out on the Hankooks first, see where we sit, and make adjustments. After the first heat, we didn't see ourselves making up the time we had to in order to catch up so we switched to the Bridgestones. Still not good enough, but we did find time on the Bridgestones that brought us up a few spots. Hankooks weren't bad, lateral grip was about the same through the sweeper and such. Turn in on the RE71s is much sharper and its easier to put the car where you want it. Bridgestones are faster, no doubt about it. In addition to the speed, I think the biggest advantage for most people is that they don't punish you when you do something dumb. The car on Kooks is a lot harder to recover. On Bridgestones I feel like you can throw the car hard into anything and as long as you aren't an idiot it is easily catchable.

Anyway, had a blast, it was nice meeting Sean and Mike. Also another great event driving with Rich and Dennis. I'll get up some videos later.