No front anti-sway bar=a better ride

[Wepeel]

Isn't it more useful to look at spring and bar rates in terms of frequency?

Stock BRZ has a front wheel frequency in roll (spring+bar) of about 2.4Hz. Rear in roll is 1.92 Hz.

Stock FRS as a front wheel frequency in roll of about 2.3 Hz. Rear 1.97 Hz.

Ratio of front:rear wheel freq in roll is 1.24 for BRZ, 1.15 FRS (>1 indicates front biased, <1 indicates rear biased).

I can't make any conclusions about track use, but I know the fastest autocross STX and CS twins in the country are running ratios more in the 1.4-1.5 range, so quite a bit more front-biased than stock.

[KoolBRZ]

What about the helper springs? Nobody ever mentions helper springs and the necessary preload. A good analogy is comparing them to the rev limiter in the ECU. A harsh rev limit is like a flattened helper spring preload. No give at all. When it tops out, the shock is so harsh you think something is broken. A too soft rev limit is like having no preload. When it tops out it's bobbing and weaving like a drunken madman.

The helper spring preload is essential to determining how the shock handles the upper limits of it's extension. Sure the helper spring is flattened out when the car is just sitting, but coming over a bump or rise is when that preload kicks in, smoothing out the rebound and keeping it in control.

Preload is also essential in setting up ride height in the shock travel. Too close to top or bottom of the shock travel severely affects handling, and many shocks are specifically setup to ride at a certain percentage of shock travel. This is why I must have adjustable mount coilovers. I don't want my ride height to be determined by the shock travel.

[celica73]

A helper spring serves a single purpose. Keep the main spring from rattling around.

Maybe you were thinking of tender springs. Google that one, then come back and start posting more expert advice.

[Hyper4mance2k]

I'm telling you guys, he just makes blanket assumptions about things w/o the research. I can't believe this thread is still going.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

What about the helper springs? Nobody ever mentions helper springs and the necessary preload. A good analogy is comparing them to the rev limiter in the ECU. A harsh rev limit is like a flattened helper spring preload. No give at all. When it tops out, the shock is so harsh you think something is broken. A too soft rev limit is like having no preload. When it tops out it's bobbing and weaving like a drunken madman.

You do know that a soft rev limit is when it just holds at redline instead of bouncing, right?

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

The helper spring preload is essential to determining how the shock handles the upper limits of it's extension. Sure the helper spring is flattened out when the car is just sitting, but coming over a bump or rise is when that preload kicks in, smoothing out the rebound and keeping it in control.

It's already been said, but repeating so it sinks in. A helper spring does nothing but keep the spring from rattling around at full extension. You'll NEVER get that much rebound travel unless the car is in the air, so it's completely irellevant in any discussion about spring rates. They're also very weak compared to the main spring, so they'll completely compress before the main spring is compressing at all.

[Racecomp Engineering]

A tender spring can improve ride quality over certain types of bumps. A lot of people do call those helper springs, but they are different things.

- Andy

[shiro]

Originally Posted by Crazy Drew

Hey everyone, I removed my springs, shits cash. Glides over everything like a true land yacht. Lexus could learn a thing or two from how I mod cars.

lmao, "like a true land yacht" completely made my morning.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

A tender spring can improve ride quality over certain types of bumps.

But it also cries at the drop of a hat and doesn't like it when you cuss. Just not worth it.

[Coheed]

Originally Posted by jvincent

Taking this thread to the next level.......

If no sway-bar is good, how about no springs up front. Hell why not take out the whole strut?

Think of how planted the car would feel.

Since the purpose of the sway bar isn't to support the weight of the vehicle, this comparison, frankly, is stupid.

I used sway bars to help fine-tune my previous race car. It was hampered by many things, but playing with sway bars helped me learn a lot. Some of these things have to be experimented with to know for sure how the chassis will react. The last season I ran my B14 it had no front or rear sway bar and it had much more balance. Springs were so stiff, there was no body roll anyway. Having the sway bars on there made the car feel more inconsistent in cornering behavior. Too much front bar would understeer, too much rear would oversteer. In my particular scenario, actually racing on a track provided the best insight to how the car would handle. I strongly preferred the setup without the sway bar, as the tires wouldn't load up as much in cornering, and I even saved weight doing it.

Not condoning it, but I highly doubt any harm is going to come from trying it out. So coming in with a comparison like above is childish, and makes you look dumb, because these scenarios aren't even close to the same thing.

If I were running stiff enough springs on the BRZ I would toy with removing the sway bars.

[gramicci101]

He was being sarcastic.

[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

But it also cries at the drop of a hat and doesn't like it when you cuss. Just not worth it.

God damn it. That was hilarious.

[Coheed]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

He was being sarcastic.

I understand that. But in this context he is poking fun at the OP for simply trying it, and presenting a comparison in a way that implies that the idea was somehow beyond reason.

[jvincent]

The OP has a history of swapping struts, springs, coilovers, etc on what seems like daily basis to get the "perfect" ride because his car was essentially undrivable stock.

[Ultramaroon]

Yeah. I grit my teeth reading his posts. It's painful but I can't stop myself.

Originally Posted by cdrazic93

God damn it. That was hilarious.

Thanks! I do my best. Sometimes it just works.