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Old 04-16-2021, 09:10 AM   #113
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For me, performance driving at the track is all about managing grip at the absolute limits under braking, turn-in, apex, track out.
True. But you canít do any of that on your commute. The manual transmission keeps me from feeling like a passenger.
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Old 04-16-2021, 09:15 AM   #114
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I liked trying to get them to play to the beat of the AM music.
Accelerate and hey stop dead wherever they are when the vacuum is used to advance the timing.
Take foot off gas at high RPMs and they go to beat hell. Was about a 20% chance that at least one would take off into the unknown at a rate that approached escape velocity. Good thing they were only about 9" long and dirt cheap!
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Old 04-16-2021, 09:18 AM   #115
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True. But you canít do any of that on your commute. The manual transmission keeps me from feeling like a passenger.
I have been driving MTs for 45 years. I put about as much thought and engagement in shifting during a commute as I would if driving an AT. Having a MT does absolutely zero for me when commuting. The only time it shines at all is those rare occasions when I get to play.
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Old 04-16-2021, 09:27 AM   #116
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I still miss the manual Choke on my first car.
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Old 04-16-2021, 10:03 AM   #117
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I still miss the manual Choke on my first car.
Oh and the non hydraulic mechanical clutch system and unsynchronized square cut gears of the old army jeeps! Talk about being "engaged" in shifting!
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Old 04-16-2021, 10:17 AM   #118
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True. But you canít do any of that on your commute. The manual transmission keeps me from feeling like a passenger.
In any car like ours with relatively low HP,driving it in an automatic for me just makes it feel like I'm driving a glorified go-kart.I just don't see the fun in that,but that's just my opinion and experience,ymmv.

I've mentioned this before,but when I heard Matt Farrah talking about it on Joe Rogan,he put it perfectly that after around 500 HP,it's dangerous to not have both hands on the wheel. Not saying that he's an authority of the auto industry and has any say in how they manufacture their vehicles,but what he says makes very practical sense.
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Old 04-16-2021, 10:28 AM   #119
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I found that my transmission preferences have been shifting recently. I always enjoyed a manual transmission, both for the direct control of the car and for the tactile operation of it.

For spirited driving, however, I find my self enjoying the manual transmission less - it detracts from the other aspects of the drive and adds complexity without giving enough of a reward for it. I find myself agreeing (a little grudgingly) with @ZDan's sentiment - the transmission becomes a means to an end of enjoying the winding road. I can imagine that on the track this would be doubly true.

This makes me consider an automatic fun car after the BRZ, which is somewhat of a good thing, as it opens up more options in the ever automatic car world (not to mention EVs).
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Old 04-16-2021, 10:46 AM   #120
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True. But you can’t do any of that on your commute. The manual transmission keeps me from feeling like a passenger.
Not gonna lie, not having to shift actually *increases* the fun driving girlfriend's Honda Fit around town. Less to bother with, less attention diverted from driving. *Not* having to shift surprisingly *added* an element of fun and took away the "work" aspect of it.

Similar experience when I started working for an EV startup a log time ago. I'm also a motorcycle guy (faired and "naked" sportbikes primarily), and we were developing an electric 2-wheeler with a single-stage planetary gearbox. No clutch, no gear changes. And again that thing was *fun* around town! Just twist throttle and go, neat! Loved it a lot more than I expected to...
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Old 04-16-2021, 01:55 PM   #121
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Not gonna lie, not having to shift actually *increases* the fun driving girlfriend's Honda Fit around town. Less to bother with, less attention diverted from driving.

I use to argue with a coworker about this all the time. I find that driving manual makes you pay way more attention to driving than driving automatic.

When driving MT,you are more likely to be more engaged in driving do to the fact that all four limbs are active in the action of operating the vehicle. When driving AT,you have a free foot and hand. People usually end up eating,messing with the radio,putting on makeup,texting,ect.,which in turn leads to more opportunity to be less attentive because you are "riding" around more than actually "driving". That's my take,at least.
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Old 04-16-2021, 02:06 PM   #122
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I use to argue with a coworker about this all the time. I find that driving manual makes you pay way more attention to driving than driving automatic.

When driving MT,you are more likely to be more engaged in driving do to the fact that all four limbs are active in the action of operating the vehicle. When driving AT,you have a free foot and hand. People usually end up eating,messing with the radio,putting on makeup,texting,ect.,which in turn leads to more opportunity to be less attentive because you are "riding" around more than actually "driving". That's my take,at least.
I do all those things except texting and makeup while driving MT anyway. If you need to have extra attention to drive MT then you are either new or not doing it right! How the hell does using a hand and foot make you a "better" driver?
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Old 04-16-2021, 03:43 PM   #123
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I do all those things except texting and makeup while driving MT anyway. If you need to have extra attention to drive MT then you are either new or not doing it right! How the hell does using a hand and foot make you a "better" driver?
The notion that MT makes you a better driver is stupid at best and egotistical at worst. It's really a means for saying you are better than the rest without saying it simply because you play with a hard stick and use your left leg while driving.

Enthusiastic drivers like MT, sure, but you can very well still be a shitty ass driver.

The only thing MT does for me is stops me from falling asleep. Any skill or w.e you want to call it (SHIVIC TYPO ARRO DORIFTO) can just as easily be learned, if not easier in an AT flappy paddles depending on what you're trying to do. Hell I was drifting FWD ATs on wet/snow/loose gravel asphalt because lol handbrake. RIP 1989 Accord.
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Old 04-16-2021, 03:59 PM   #124
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The notion that MT makes you a better driver is stupid at best and egotistical at worst. It's really a means for saying you are better than the rest without saying it simply because you play with a hard stick and use your left leg while driving.

Enthusiastic drivers like MT, sure, but you can very well still be a shitty ass driver.

The only thing MT does for me is stops me from falling asleep. Any skill or w.e you want to call it (SHIVIC TYPO ARRO DORIFTO) can just as easily be learned, if not easier in an AT flappy paddles depending on what you're trying to do. Hell I was drifting FWD ATs on wet/snow/loose gravel asphalt because lol handbrake. RIP 1989 Accord.
Well,I never said,"better". I said more attentive.
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Old 04-16-2021, 04:03 PM   #125
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I think attention span is the same.

You just dont have extra limbs to do anything dangerous with a manual since your dealing with the shifter.
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Old 04-16-2021, 04:12 PM   #126
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I use to argue with a coworker about this all the time. I find that driving manual makes you pay way more attention to driving than driving automatic.

When driving MT,you are more likely to be more engaged in driving do to the fact that all four limbs are active in the action of operating the vehicle. When driving AT,you have a free foot and hand. People usually end up eating,messing with the radio,putting on makeup,texting,ect.,which in turn leads to more opportunity to be less attentive because you are "riding" around more than actually "driving". That's my take,at least.
Those are some mighty big assumptions you got there...

I don't for a second believe that if someone goes from manual to auto that they're suddenly going to become less attentive drivers and be texting, applying makeup, eating, whatever all the time while driving. Also, I *never* feel like I'm just "riding around" while I am driving a car with an automatic transmission. At all. I'm driving. Same as with a manual except I can keep both hands on the wheel at all times.

If not having to think about or physically perform shifts gives you back say 2% of your total attention capacity and steering control, avaraged over time, it's b.s. to argue that means people will divert that 2% plus 10% more to other non driving-related stuff.
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