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Old 05-26-2020, 09:25 AM   #29
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@Frost
Hi Kevin, It's Alan, I was the guy asking about the gaming headset and mic from your Discord chat.
One day I'll jump in with you guys and do some online racing. I'm essentially starting from scratch for online racing. Need everything... lol.


I can attest, that right now, OTA and SPDA is the only organizers I feel confident with, in terms of trackdays. So anybody that is looking for a serious organization that takes safety seriously, these are the organizers to go with for sure.


I am looking for alternatives, as I can't commit to a full season of competition this year.

I've already ticked Touge off my list. Not because of anything that I've seen posted on the internet, but I have had a buddy participate in it, and he said he will not ever go again. While I'm sure some folks may enjoy it, it doesn't tick the safety boxes for us. Everybody has their "level" of safety.



Have fun May 31!


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Old 05-26-2020, 10:29 AM   #30
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I'd also like to point out, Northern Speed had nothing to do with these idiots. Again, this is like blaming CSCS, OTA or any other club just because a bunch of bad apples take part in their events outside of their control. The framing of the message absolutely matters - its a bunch of rich stupid kids who have more ego than brains who did a bunch of dumb stuff making us ALL look bad.

There are still plenty of solid track day organizers who run safe and fun events.

Just also wanted to comment on this...


No matter which organizer you go with, even SPDA or OTA, there will always be people that are new to the sport.


The distinguishing factor when I decide to participate, is how each organizer deals with safety.



OTA and SPDA events have what I think is required to have a safe event. They have volunteer marshals at every event, and enough marshals at various locations and turns at each track. I recall an event with OTA where there was a newbie M5 driver that just wouldn't do any point-bys. It took a couple of laps, but eventually they flagged him off the track.



OTA have been around for a while, and they have the experience.



They have safety meetings before the day begins, and even another one after lunch break.


I've attended other events organized by others where there is non of this. Perhaps they had one marshal, but that was it. I wasn't even participating, the whole point of attending the event was to see how they ran it to determine their safety level. Well worth the time to investigate.


While it is unfair to blame the organizers for the actions of a few individuals, I believe it is the duty of the organizers of a track event to emphasize safety, and to effectively enforce safety rules on track. OTA and SPDA certainly addresses this.



I can't comment on the Northerrn Stars, or the TMP incident, but I think something like this would be very unlikely at an SPDA or OTA event. I mean, what I saw in those videos was just insane.


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Old 05-26-2020, 12:27 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by AC86 View Post
Just also wanted to comment on this...


No matter which organizer you go with, even SPDA or OTA, there will always be people that are new to the sport.


The distinguishing factor when I decide to participate, is how each organizer deals with safety.



OTA and SPDA events have what I think is required to have a safe event. They have volunteer marshals at every event, and enough marshals at various locations and turns at each track. I recall an event with OTA where there was a newbie M5 driver that just wouldn't do any point-bys. It took a couple of laps, but eventually they flagged him off the track.



OTA have been around for a while, and they have the experience.



They have safety meetings before the day begins, and even another one after lunch break.


I've attended other events organized by others where there is non of this. Perhaps they had one marshal, but that was it. I wasn't even participating, the whole point of attending the event was to see how they ran it to determine their safety level. Well worth the time to investigate.


While it is unfair to blame the organizers for the actions of a few individuals, I believe it is the duty of the organizers of a track event to emphasize safety, and to effectively enforce safety rules on track. OTA and SPDA certainly addresses this.



I can't comment on the Northerrn Stars, or the TMP incident, but I think something like this would be very unlikely at an SPDA or OTA event. I mean, what I saw in those videos was just insane.


Alan C
110% agreed. It's why I do what I do.

The organizers have to take some responsibility for their customers. It reflects poorly on them when they don't.
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Old 05-26-2020, 01:43 PM   #32
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April 29/18 is the last track day I attended. Who said I have moved on to friendlier TRACK days? Maybe moved on to other recreational activities with friendlier people toward myself and less risk. That day educated me. . I have not made the effort to look elsewhere, just put a lot more money into other interests that I have a passion for. Honestly, I am WAY older than most of that crowd and as a younger boomer being heavily berated, decided not to return there for paid driving instruction. The biggest risk nowadays might be electric shock or soldering iron burn. My judgement told me this wasn't an enjoyable experience so move on. When I get on a track in the future, it will be in a very different set of circumstances.
Sorry to see youíve left the sport behind. Itís a good sport for personal development and improving skill but it takes time. Hope to see you back out there one day.
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Old 05-26-2020, 02:39 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by AC86 View Post
Just also wanted to comment on this...


No matter which organizer you go with, even SPDA or OTA, there will always be people that are new to the sport.


The distinguishing factor when I decide to participate, is how each organizer deals with safety.



OTA and SPDA events have what I think is required to have a safe event. They have volunteer marshals at every event, and enough marshals at various locations and turns at each track. I recall an event with OTA where there was a newbie M5 driver that just wouldn't do any point-bys. It took a couple of laps, but eventually they flagged him off the track.



OTA have been around for a while, and they have the experience.



They have safety meetings before the day begins, and even another one after lunch break.


I've attended other events organized by others where there is non of this. Perhaps they had one marshal, but that was it. I wasn't even participating, the whole point of attending the event was to see how they ran it to determine their safety level. Well worth the time to investigate.


While it is unfair to blame the organizers for the actions of a few individuals, I believe it is the duty of the organizers of a track event to emphasize safety, and to effectively enforce safety rules on track. OTA and SPDA certainly addresses this.



I can't comment on the Northerrn Stars, or the TMP incident, but I think something like this would be very unlikely at an SPDA or OTA event. I mean, what I saw in those videos was just insane.


Alan C
So very much this.

Check out 'driveteq'.. they are quite experienced from an instructor point of view and the amount of Marshall's they have on track are great. I think their price might be a little higher, but they have a ton of experienced drivers.. One driver in particular races 911's (or he used to) and casually tracks an FRS, he can really show you a thing or two about the 86 platform.
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Old 05-26-2020, 02:54 PM   #34
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So very much this.

Check out 'driveteq'.. they are quite experienced from an instructor point of view and the amount of Marshall's they have on track are great. I think their price might be a little higher, but they have a ton of experienced drivers.. One driver in particular races 911's (or he used to) and casually tracks an FRS, he can really show you a thing or two about the 86 platform.

Thanks Jordanwolf!


If the driver is Gerry, then I believe he already has shown me a thing or two about the 86 platform. He was my driving instructor at the Weitzes/Jackson Scion driving event they held at CTMP in 2013. You definitely want training for CTMP GP track.



It's amazing all the services they provide. I'm very interested in their roadtrips to other tracks outside of Ontario. Thanks again!


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Old 05-26-2020, 03:28 PM   #35
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Thanks Jordanwolf!


If the driver is Gerry, then I believe he already has shown me a thing or two about the 86 platform. He was my driving instructor at the Weitzes/Jackson Scion driving event they held at CTMP in 2013. You definitely want training for CTMP GP track.



It's amazing all the services they provide. I'm very interested in their roadtrips to other tracks outside of Ontario. Thanks again!


Alan C
It wasn't Gerry, but he's a great guy! I had a small chance to talk to him a little bit when I went with them and he is quite chill.
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Old 05-27-2020, 12:37 PM   #36
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So I was actually there that day at TMP. From noon to 4:30 was fantastic. Very cars on track, everyone respecting the rules and each other, just like any other track day. Then the 5 pm crowd showed up.

Once the incident with the BRZ and Merc happened and the fight broke out it was game over. People were so ego fired up, short of physically removing them from the facility there wasn't much to be done. It's hard to "control" people when they're ignoring your black and red flags and just doing whatever the f*** they want.

Everything bad that happened that day was just a single group of guys causing problems, and it was on and off track. These guys were going WOT down pit lane after being told to slow down, and all the care for track etiquette was thrown out the window.

You could ask almost anyone who tracks when was the last time they saw this behavior? probably never... This was a perfect storm of bad shit happening, and it's not just us. People everywhere are generally much crazier these days due to this pandemic and being in lockdown.

At the end of the day, if you are at an event and you feel the people around you on track are a danger or can't follow the rules. Then just go park your car and stay out of it. I would much rather be out a couple of bucks and not track for the rest of the day. Then put myself in a situation I feel could damage my car.
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Old 05-27-2020, 01:15 PM   #37
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So I was actually there that day at TMP. From noon to 4:30 was fantastic. Very cars on track, everyone respecting the rules and each other, just like any other track day. Then the 5 pm crowd showed up.

Once the incident with the BRZ and Merc happened and the fight broke out it was game over. People were so ego fired up, short of physically removing them from the facility there wasn't much to be done. It's hard to "control" people when they're ignoring your black and red flags and just doing whatever the f*** they want.

Everything bad that happened that day was just a single group of guys causing problems, and it was on and off track. These guys were going WOT down pit lane after being told to slow down, and all the care for track etiquette was thrown out the window.

You could ask almost anyone who tracks when was the last time they saw this behavior? probably never... This was a perfect storm of bad shit happening, and it's not just us. People everywhere are generally much crazier these days due to this pandemic and being in lockdown.

At the end of the day, if you are at an event and you feel the people around you on track are a danger or can't follow the rules. Then just go park your car and stay out of it. I would much rather be out a couple of bucks and not track for the rest of the day. Then put myself in a situation I feel could damage my car.
This. We take responsibility of our actions as much as we can.

TMP had a rough day. Northern Speed did too. All this because of 5 or 7 dumb fucks.
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Old 05-28-2020, 07:45 AM   #38
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I was at TMP last night and I was there on the 20th and I can attest that things were very different last night. They were managing the number of cars on course and all of the drivers I encountered were good at allowing faster folks to pass and waiting for signals to pass.
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Old 05-28-2020, 08:00 AM   #39
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Part of me wishes calibogie motorsports park allowed solo lapping sessions without being signed off, but then stuff like this can happen more easily.

I read TMP made changes after this. Hopefully that's the last we see if the bad apples.
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Old 05-28-2020, 10:11 AM   #40
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Part of me wishes calibogie motorsports park allowed solo lapping sessions without being signed off, but then stuff like this can happen more easily.

I read TMP made changes after this. Hopefully that's the last we see if the bad apples.
Have you been to Calabogie?

The last thing you want is anyone walking into Bogie and not know what they're doing and going balls out into ... heck, most of the turns. The Armco is a LOT closer than it looks.
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Old 05-28-2020, 10:35 AM   #41
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Have you been to Calabogie?

The last thing you want is anyone walking into Bogie and not know what they're doing and going balls out into ... heck, most of the turns. The Armco is a LOT closer than it looks.
I have been, but only ran the west track during "notice day session" which do not require being signed off to run solo.

I've seen the full track on assetto Corsa on a VR rig with a wheel. It get why they want you signed off, it's a challenging course with lots of elevation changes.
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Old 05-28-2020, 11:18 AM   #42
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I have been, but only ran the west track during "notice day session" which do not require being signed off to run solo.

I've seen the full track on assetto Corsa on a VR rig with a wheel. It get why they want you signed off, it's a challenging course with lots of elevation changes.
Yeppers! Blind turns everywhere and temptation will screw people up.
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