Random Thoughts - Part Deux [NO POLITICS]

[Cole]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

How did you work 17 hours overtime in a day? I presume Monday was actually 11.5 but since was a holiday you received 1.5 for the whole day. Those hours break every single law in Ontario.

Is that so? What laws are being broken? And that's not all overtime. That's total hours worked... 92.5 hours.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Cole

Is that so? What laws are being broken?

Employment Standards act.


Introduction

These are the general rules in Ontario about hours of work and overtime pay. There are exceptions and special rules for some employees under the Employment Standards Act, 2000 (ESA). To see if your occupation is subject to special rules or exemptions see the Special Rule Tool.
Your employer cannot intimidate you, fire you, suspend you, reduce your pay, punish you in any way or threaten any of these actions for exercising your ESA rights.
Hours of work

The maximum daily and weekly limits on hours of work are:

• 8 hours a day (or the number of hours in your regular work day, if it is more than 8),
• 48 hours a week.

Rest periods and eating periods

Your employer must give you at least:

• 11 consecutive hours off work each day (a “day” is a 24-hour period – it does not have to be a calendar day);
• 8 hours off work between shifts (unless the total time worked on the shifts is 13 hours or less, or you and your employer have otherwise agreed in writing); and
• 24 consecutive hours off work each work week (or 48 consecutive hours off every two work weeks).

You must also get a 30-minute eating period after no more than five hours of work. You can agree with your employer to split this eating period into two shorter breaks.


Weekly Limits of Work

The maximum number of hours most employees can be required or allowed to work in a week is 48 hours.


Things to Consider

• If an employer plans to have a work week that is longer than 48 hours or to average hours of work for overtime purposes, the Applications for Approval of Excess Hours or for Averaging Hours of Work provides step-by-step instructions. It is also strongly suggested that employers visit the Hours of Work & Overtime Tool for a more complete understanding of these employment standards.
• Requiring or allowing employees to work more than 48 hours per week without the approval of the ministry’s Director of Employment Standards is a violation of the Employment Standards Act (ESA), unless:
  • the employee is exempt;
  • one of the ESA’s “exceptional circumstance” provisions applies; or
  • in certain cases, an approval application is pending.

Weekly or Bi-weekly Rest

Employees must receive at least:

• 24 consecutive hours off work in each work week; or
• 48 consecutive hours off work in every period of two consecutive work weeks.

[Cole]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Employment Standards act.


Introduction

These are the general rules in Ontario about hours of work and overtime pay. There are exceptions and special rules for some employees under the Employment Standards Act, 2000 (ESA). To see if your occupation is subject to special rules or exemptions see the Special Rule Tool.
Your employer cannot intimidate you, fire you, suspend you, reduce your pay, punish you in any way or threaten any of these actions for exercising your ESA rights.
Hours of work

The maximum daily and weekly limits on hours of work are:

• 8 hours a day (or the number of hours in your regular work day, if it is more than 8),
• 48 hours a week.

Rest periods and eating periods

Your employer must give you at least:

• 11 consecutive hours off work each day (a “day” is a 24-hour period – it does not have to be a calendar day);
• 8 hours off work between shifts (unless the total time worked on the shifts is 13 hours or less, or you and your employer have otherwise agreed in writing); and
• 24 consecutive hours off work each work week (or 48 consecutive hours off every two work weeks).

You must also get a 30-minute eating period after no more than five hours of work. You can agree with your employer to split this eating period into two shorter breaks.


Weekly Limits of Work

The maximum number of hours most employees can be required or allowed to work in a week is 48 hours.


Things to Consider

• If an employer plans to have a work week that is longer than 48 hours or to average hours of work for overtime purposes, the Applications for Approval of Excess Hours or for Averaging Hours of Work provides step-by-step instructions. It is also strongly suggested that employers visit the Hours of Work & Overtime Tool for a more complete understanding of these employment standards.
• Requiring or allowing employees to work more than 48 hours per week without the approval of the ministry’s Director of Employment Standards is a violation of the Employment Standards Act (ESA), unless:
  • the employee is exempt;
  • one of the ESA’s “exceptional circumstance” provisions applies; or
  • in certain cases, an approval application is pending.

Weekly or Bi-weekly Rest

Employees must receive at least:

• 24 consecutive hours off work in each work week; or
• 48 consecutive hours off work in every period of two consecutive work weeks.

Still not seeing the problem.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Cole

Still not seeing the problem.

The maximum work week without a government approval is 48 hours.
With an approval it is 70.
You MUST have 11 consecutive hours off in a row (impossible if working 10 to 17 hours OT a day)
You MUST have 8 hours off between shifts (almost impossible with the stated OT).


This is the law not a guideline.

[Cole]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The maximum work week without a government approval is 48 hours.
With an approval it is 70.
You MUST have 11 consecutive hours off in a row (impossible if working 10 to 17 hours OT a day)
You MUST have 8 hours off between shifts (almost impossible with the stated OT).


This is the law not a guideline.

Don't see anything about 70 being the max. I didn't say I'm working 10 to 17 hours of OT per day, you misinterpreted. 10-17 hours being the TOTAL amount of time worked.

Edit: Looking at the calculator, I could work 16 hours per day and be totally ok, according to the ministry. Seems as though someone doesn't have a thorough grasp on the rules?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Cole

Don't see anything about 70 being the max. I didn't say I'm working 10 to 17 hours of OT per day, you misinterpreted. 10-17 hours being the TOTAL amount of time worked.

Edit: Looking at the calculator, I could work 16 hours per day and be totally ok, according to the ministry. Seems as though someone doesn't have a thorough grasp on the rules?

Oh sorry I was wrong! The max is 60 hours.




(i) the employee’s hours of work in a work week do not exceed any of,


(i) the number of hours specified in the application,


(ii) the number of hours specified in the agreement, and
(iii) 60 hours. 2004, c. 21, s. 4


That is a TOTAL of 60 hours not 60 hours OT. It is against the fucking law.


How can you work 16 hours a day for a week and still have 11 consecutive hours off each day and 24 off within a 7 day period?


My grasp of the rules is fine. Your distorting of them (and probably reality) is faulty.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Cole

Yeah,
Sunday was 13 hours, Leaves 11 So just makes it.
Monday was 19.5, Leaves 3.5 Short 7.5 of the required 11
Tuesday was 15, Leaves 9 Short 2 of the required 11
Wednesday 10, Leaves 14 So OK
Thursday 10, Leaves 14 So OK
Friday 17, Leaves 7 Short 4 of the required 11
Saturday 8. Or something like that. No issue

Don't see 24 consecutive off in there anywhere.


Not sure what you thought I was saying here. I simply pointed out that that many hours of OT is not legal. It isn't

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Cole

Damn. Managed to bank 71.25 hours of time off from last week. The stat holiday on Monday and the 1800ish km drive really helped there. Ended the week with 52.5 hours of overtime.

Oh, my ........ ol @Tcoat comes out in debate mode .......

Now @Cole , I reckon I just didn't understand the Canadian work week.

banked hours of time off = 71.25

hours of overtime = 52.5

hours in an average work week = 40 hours

My pencil and paper tells me that adds up to roughly 163.75 hours

There are 168 hours in a week (in a US week).

That leaves you 4.25 hours a week to sleep, shit and shower ....... or .60 hours per day.

You must have been very tired, and stinky or constipated, by the end of that week ......





humfrz

[Silver Supra]

Weekly Limits of Work

The maximum number of hours most employees can be required or allowed to work in a week is 48 hours.

I can understand "required" but "allowed"?

I had no idea. Very limiting.

I have worked many 80+ hour weeks (not recently!!) doing stuff that could not actually be done by someone else - like writing code for start-of-art analyses that I developed, or some time-sensitive national-security related "stuff". Now I know why my Canadian colleagues were never in their office when I called them at 8pm (or 2 am)!!

Now I am not required to work at all!!!

[Silver Supra]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Don't see 24 consecutive off in there anywhere.


Not sure what you thought I was saying here. I simply pointed out that that many hours of OT is not legal. It isn't

I predict a few deleted posts in the coming days!

[Cole]

Originally Posted by Silver Supra

I predict a few deleted posts in the coming days!

And why would I do that? It's entertaining as hell to get people rolled up.

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

How did you work 17 hours overtime in a day?

Mars?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Silver Supra

I can understand "required" but "allowed"?

I had no idea. Very limiting.

I have worked many 80+ hour weeks (not recently!!) doing stuff that could not actually be done by someone else - like writing code for start-of-art analyses that I developed, or some time-sensitive national-security related "stuff". Now I know why my Canadian colleagues were never in their office when I called them at 8pm (or 2 am)!!

Now I am not required to work at all!!!

There are some exceptions and Supervisors and up have no restrictions (or right to say no to any number of hours). The "allowed" part is there because many employers would graciously "permit" people to work 20 hours a day if they wanted to keep their job.
The law allows the employer and employees (or union if there is one) to agree in writing to up to 60 hours per week. The reality of the situation is that many people work up to about 70 hours a week without the government caring much (as long as there is no complaint lodged and then they will show up). Working 92 hours in a labour position is ludicrous and unsafe for everybody involved.
My standard work week is a minimum of 58 hours and can frequently hit 70 or more and I can't say shit about it.

Oh and as far as IT jobs go in Ontario you can throw all those rules I said before right out the window. Your employer owns your ass. Note the OT pay.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Cole

And why would I do that? It's entertaining as hell to get people rolled up.

Nobody "rolled up" here. You are the one that loses his shit when your little daydreams are questioned.