Estimated Max HP for a N/A setup.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Whitigir

I would be more concerned about the Torque first, not the HP. Generally, anything over 200 HP and More will bring you up to 130 MPH no problem.

However, the Torque is what will move your car. Think about it this way

Torque = Get moving
HP = Top speed.

Unfortunately, to change your Torque from an NA. You have no other options than swapping head, or cams. If not, then go FI such as Turbo or Supercharger.

These cars will be fast, if you can put down 250 Torque at 1300 rpm, and 200 HP

that must be why f1 cars dont want to get moving. in all seriousness, i think that hp is what you are going to want if you want the car to be faster. tq is really nice for daily driving though. i get the feeling that with a drivers car that hp is what is more appreciable in a "drivers" car.

[evilconcarne999]

when i got this car, i ended up realizing that to get this car to really move, rotational and unsprung weight removal will go a long way. All my work on the car has been focused around weight removal and replacing parts with lightweight parts. You can get this car really moving with all that extra weight shed. it may not translate to much of a difference on a dyno as far as numbers go but for every day driving and track application you can really feel the difference. ive been able to keep up with some cars that were "faster" than my car and have been able to outpace others. I think the key with this car is not necessarely brute force but more dieting and removing the weight at key points on the engine, drivetrain, at the wheels, etc. for example i have replaced the following on my car, pulleys, driveshaft, clutch/flywheel, lighter weight wheels, intake, stage 2 tune, completely free flowing exhaust to include header, stuff like that and it has made a world of difference. im still not done as there are still modifications out there that i can get that will enchance the car even more from where it is now. My goal is to eventually hit 300whp N/A. is that possible now? proably not without some boost but eventually down the road yes i believe so. I think 300whp of lagless power will take this car to a whole new level and make it very competitive in all applications. You can also eventually down the road proably incorporate a stroker kit or various other engine modifications like cams and what not. And if you wanted to enchance that even further without slapping on a FI kit, there is always NOS

[WRXGuy1]

Originally Posted by evilconcarne999

when i got this car, i ended up realizing that to get this car to really move, rotational and unsprung weight removal will go a long way. All my work on the car has been focused around weight removal and replacing parts with lightweight parts. You can get this car really moving with all that extra weight shed. it may not translate to much of a difference on a dyno as far as numbers go but for every day driving and track application you can really feel the difference. ive been able to keep up with some cars that were "faster" than my car and have been able to outpace others. I think the key with this car is not necessarely brute force but more dieting and removing the weight at key points on the engine, drivetrain, at the wheels, etc. for example i have replaced the following on my car, pulleys, driveshaft, clutch/flywheel, lighter weight wheels, intake, stage 2 tune, completely free flowing exhaust to include header, stuff like that and it has made a world of difference. im still not done as there are still modifications out there that i can get that will enchance the car even more from where it is now. My goal is to eventually hit 300whp N/A. is that possible now? proably not without some boost but eventually down the road yes i believe so. I think 300whp of lagless power will take this car to a whole new level and make it very competitive in all applications. You can also eventually down the road proably incorporate a stroker kit or various other engine modifications like cams and what not. And if you wanted to enchance that even further without slapping on a FI kit, there is always NOS

Each gallon of gas weighs 6 pounds, so drive around under 1/4 a tank all the time

[Whitigir]

Originally Posted by fatoni

that must be why f1 cars dont want to get moving. in all seriousness, i think that hp is what you are going to want if you want the car to be faster. tq is really nice for daily driving though. i get the feeling that with a drivers car that hp is what is more appreciable in a "drivers" car.

F1 car is very light weighted vehicle, every little torque count. As I stated before, the F1 car is all about Max speed, and control + Longevity at high RPM to endure the race. That is why they have to compromise Torque (which can be made up by Light Weight) for more HP.

The more torque = the more Strain + Stress + twisting force to the components.

[Fenrir]

Watch Nameless Performance. They just picked up a second car for N/A development. ITBs, cams, the whole deal.

[suaveflooder]

Originally Posted by evilconcarne999

when i got this car, i ended up realizing that to get this car to really move, rotational and unsprung weight removal will go a long way. All my work on the car has been focused around weight removal and replacing parts with lightweight parts. You can get this car really moving with all that extra weight shed. it may not translate to much of a difference on a dyno as far as numbers go but for every day driving and track application you can really feel the difference. ive been able to keep up with some cars that were "faster" than my car and have been able to outpace others. I think the key with this car is not necessarely brute force but more dieting and removing the weight at key points on the engine, drivetrain, at the wheels, etc. for example i have replaced the following on my car, pulleys, driveshaft, clutch/flywheel, lighter weight wheels, intake, stage 2 tune, completely free flowing exhaust to include header, stuff like that and it has made a world of difference. im still not done as there are still modifications out there that i can get that will enchance the car even more from where it is now. My goal is to eventually hit 300whp N/A. is that possible now? proably not without some boost but eventually down the road yes i believe so. I think 300whp of lagless power will take this car to a whole new level and make it very competitive in all applications. You can also eventually down the road proably incorporate a stroker kit or various other engine modifications like cams and what not. And if you wanted to enchance that even further without slapping on a FI kit, there is always NOS

Great thread! Being from California, I will probably focus mostly on weight reduction! If a stroker kit comes out for this thing, that would be AWESOME! I would love to stay NA if possible, but I would also like 250-300 to keep up with the V8's on a faster track. This car is awesome as long as the road is curved and then on a long straight, you see EVERYONE pass them. As of now, FI is in my future, but FI also means heat!

[Allch Chcar]

Try this thread my good man.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17906

[EJ20]

Originally Posted by Jesse@JDLAutodesign

I don't see these motors ever touching anything K series. 280-300whp is nothing for them. I know a few guys over 400whp

I just saw a 200+whp dyno from another BRZ today...I'm sure it will be up soon!

Glenn has made ~280whp in his altezza powered ra23 (na 3sge beams engine strocked to 2.2L) and that with an engine made in 1998.

I have a strong feeling that we will see a 280whp na fa20 in 3~4 years. Yah its not short time but hey fa20 is new and we already see good numbers with only I/h/e and a tune

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Whitigir

F1 car is very light weighted vehicle, every little torque count. As I stated before, the F1 car is all about Max speed, and control + Longevity at high RPM to endure the race. That is why they have to compromise Torque (which can be made up by Light Weight) for more HP.

The more torque = the more Strain + Stress + twisting force to the components.

f1 cars are very light but there are cars with better tq to weight ratios (both lighter and heavier examples) that dont accelerate as fast. although there is a lot going on in the way of tires and aero working both for and against both sides of the coin

[37]

Originally Posted by EJ20

I have a strong feeling that we will see a 280whp na fa20 in 3~4 years.

Sure but at what cost? For the $12-15k it would take to make such a beast (assuming the starting point is the same FA20 we have today) then you'd be crazy not to consider a turbo or supercharger for half the price depending on what's needed.

NA has its merits but it's damned expensive in the big picture. But, everyone has a different budget and set of goals so to each his own.

[Sonolin]

Originally Posted by Whitigir

F1 car is very light weighted vehicle, every little torque count. As I stated before, the F1 car is all about Max speed, and control + Longevity at high RPM to endure the race. That is why they have to compromise Torque (which can be made up by Light Weight) for more HP.

The more torque = the more Strain + Stress + twisting force to the components.

Lol...

You realize that HP is just a multiplication of Torque and Engine revs, right? So, the higher the HP the higher the torque.

It really comes down to, where do you want the torque/power? Do you want more power down low, or up high?

If down low, you'll have higher torque, but a lower HP figure, because your producing more torque early on in the RPM range (less power). If up high, you'll have lower torque, but higher HP figure, because your producing more torque higher in the RPM range (more power, but harder to produce high torque numbers up high).

I don't know much about f1 engines but do know they rev to well past 10k. I've heard in the range of 18k-20k+. That would have a lot to do with why they don't need a lot of "torque" to produce good power, as those engines wouldn't need big torque numbers with the high RPMs.

[pheoxs]

I believe Ferrea claims to have built a 300hp N/A track car ... haven't found any more info than that but it was in an interview at a trade show. Built motor though with their upgraded ferrea valvetrain and different cams I believe.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by Sonolin

I don't know much about f1 engines but do know they rev to well past 10k. I've heard in the range of 18k-20k+. That would have a lot to do with why they don't need a lot of "torque" to produce good power, as those engines wouldn't need big torque numbers with the high RPMs.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3rBFyOQQgs"]Cosworth F1 Engine V8 20,000 rpm mark - YouTube[/ame]

[kayoh]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

Try this thread my good man.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17906

It's hard to sort through that thread, 80% of it is talking about a totally different engine -___-