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Old 01-04-2019, 05:28 PM   #1
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ecutek Turbo tune refinement

alright fellas

I'm looking to refine down by flex turbo tune and would be great to get some advice on some tables. Its custom tuned by my tuner but I'm doing drivability refinements

- I have noticed part throttle entering boost that I run very lean 17:1 assuming that its still CL (monitored on torque) for maybe 1 second, are there any drawbacks to lowering CL/OL delay or zeroing it completely? I'm willing to drop the delay if it doesnt require adjustment of other tables to work well

The stock A01G was used as the base file for tuning so I'm going to assume that the CL compensation was left untouched, leading to tiny AFR additives in the heavy load ranges (-0.4 is the richest), do you guys think this should be fattened considerably to -3 or -4 in load ranges above 1?

- tip in enrichment is currently stock 2.4ms with 700cc injectors currently leading to tip in bog. I'm going to drop it to 0.8ms, assuming no issue on this

- anyone with experience with hot start enrichment? I stall out due to lean run on heat soak start (18:1). I think ive mostly nailed this down but "hot start non idle" i dont understand

- is there any way of having the fans running full time at warm idle? i was thinking of dropping coolant turn off point under 87c which will theoretically keep it on forever as thermostat will stop coolant from overcooling leading to infinite running fan. IAT gets quite high with a borg warner sitting next to intake unfortunately : /

- has anyone had issue with overrun MAF table inflated considerably? I've made the table very linear with 5g/s at 2000, 10 g/s 3000 and linear all the way to 6800 23 g/s. car slows down too hard for my liking and am trying to smooth on off throttle response

- has anyone made a custom table with overrun negative timing with one second duration for pops? brief research suggests that you can only change the base timing, not the overrun timing table with custom map

thanks to all in advance
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Old 01-04-2019, 07:03 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 504 View Post
I have noticed part throttle entering boost that I run very lean 17:1 assuming that its still CL (monitored on torque) for maybe 1 second, are there any drawbacks to lowering CL/OL delay or zeroing it completely? I'm willing to drop the delay if it doesnt require adjustment of other tables to work well
You can zero the delay. But closed loop should help in pulling this back towards target so I would be trying to work out why it goes lean. If it does this in closed loop (what are the STFT at this point?) then switching to open loop may be worse.
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Originally Posted by 504 View Post
The stock A01G was used as the base file for tuning so I'm going to assume that the CL compensation was left untouched, leading to tiny AFR additives in the heavy load ranges (-0.4 is the richest), do you guys think this should be fattened considerably to -3 or -4 in load ranges above 1?
Are you on about the coolant temp CL comps? If so they are just used, at least in stock, for warmup. Also, I'd be surprised if you're still in closed loop at loads over 1.
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tip in enrichment is currently stock 2.4ms with 700cc injectors currently leading to tip in bog. I'm going to drop it to 0.8ms, assuming no issue on this
It would be advised to adjust the whole tip in map for the new injectors.
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Originally Posted by 504 View Post
anyone with experience with hot start enrichment? I stall out due to lean run on heat soak start (18:1). I think ive mostly nailed this down but "hot start non idle" i dont understand
Were your cranking tables all corrected for the new injectors?
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Originally Posted by 504 View Post
is there any way of having the fans running full time at warm idle? i was thinking of dropping coolant turn off point under 87c which will theoretically keep it on forever as thermostat will stop coolant from overcooling leading to infinite running fan. IAT gets quite high with a borg warner sitting next to intake unfortunately : /
Don't run the fans when the car is moving, it negatively affects airflow. There is some info on here with what the fan modes are, I can't remember off hand, but there are some settings that a few of us run.
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Originally Posted by 504 View Post
has anyone had issue with overrun MAF table inflated considerably? I've made the table very linear with 5g/s at 2000, 10 g/s 3000 and linear all the way to 6800 23 g/s. car slows down too hard for my liking and am trying to smooth on off throttle response
I've changed mine so that lift off doesn't decelerate as much. I have them at ~3.5 / 6.5 / 12.2 at the markers you mention.
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has anyone made a custom table with overrun negative timing with one second duration for pops? brief research suggests that you can only change the base timing, not the overrun timing table with custom map
Easily done, but the pedal will need feathering or a map to do that for you. Beware that the pedal output of the custom maps isn't 0-100 but more like 15-60
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Old 01-04-2019, 07:34 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodename47 View Post
You can zero the delay. But closed loop should help in pulling this back towards target so I would be trying to work out why it goes lean. If it does this in closed loop (what are the STFT at this point?) then switching to open loop may be worse.

Are you on about the coolant temp CL comps? If so they are just used, at least in stock, for warmup. Also, I'd be surprised if you're still in closed loop at loads over 1.
yeah im kinda gassing and watching afrs on my screen live, I'll try plug in the cable and see if i can get anything digitally for this. This is the table im referring to, since its boosted, I assume that we should be much fatter around partial boost loads (-3 top -4? judging by my 17:1 afr). After I hit a certain load point, the car sits absolutely spot on 11.7:1





Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodename47 View Post
It would be advised to adjust the whole tip in map for the new injectors.
As so? its richer than DW recommended table but this should alleviate my problem



Were your cranking tables all corrected for the new injectors?

I'm unsure of this but I know that the car cranks and turns over perfect everytime. It just dies post start immediately on heat soak (60c IAT). Gassing to keep it alive tends to work but it struggles and I did notice it running 18:1 for about 6 seconds before transitioning back to stoich


Quote:
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Don't run the fans when the car is moving, it negatively affects airflow. There is some info on here with what the fan modes are, I can't remember off hand, but there are some settings that a few of us run.
yeah I'm basically running waynos settings right now but was hoping to simplify the process and try force low speed fan at all times above 80c coolant at idle. Would help with IAT and general heatsoak. I'm not sure if this is desirable or may consume too much gas

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I've changed mine so that lift off doesn't decelerate as much. I have them at ~3.5 / 6.5 / 12.2 at the markers you mention.
Thats quite low interestingly. I might give my table a shot and seee how it reacts. Also lift off enrichment would help
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Old 01-04-2019, 07:46 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 504 View Post
yeah im kinda gassing and watching afrs on my screen live, I'll try plug in the cable and see if i can get anything digitally for this. This is the table im referring to, since its boosted, I assume that we should be much fatter around partial boost loads (-3 top -4? judging by my 17:1 afr). After I hit a certain load point, the car sits absolutely spot on 11.7:1







As so? its richer than DW recommended table but this should alleviate my problem



Were your cranking tables all corrected for the new injectors?

I'm unsure of this but I know that the car cranks and turns over perfect everytime. It just dies post start immediately on heat soak (60c IAT). Gassing to keep it alive tends to work but it struggles and I did notice it running 18:1 for about 6 seconds before transitioning back to stoich




yeah I'm basically running waynos settings right now but was hoping to simplify the process and try force low speed fan at all times above 80c coolant at idle. Would help with IAT and general heatsoak. I'm not sure if this is desirable or may consume too much gas



Thats quite low interestingly. I might give my table a shot and seee how it reacts. Also lift off enrichment would help

Id make your closed loop fuel tables taper richer similar to your open loop tables once you get past cruising loads like 0.5.


Id turn off any pop custom maps till you get other issues sorted as low load ignition retard can make on/off throttle transition jumpy.


these cars start totally on port injectors and run totally on port for first minute or so regardless of the pi/di ratio tables


so if you have problems with car stalling after start at idle its very likely injector scaling or injector latency related
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Old 01-04-2019, 07:49 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodename47 View Post
You can zero the delay. But closed loop should help in pulling this back towards target so I would be trying to work out why it goes lean. If it does this in closed loop (what are the STFT at this point?) then switching to open loop may be worse.

Are you on about the coolant temp CL comps? If so they are just used, at least in stock, for warmup. Also, I'd be surprised if you're still in closed loop at loads over 1.

It would be advised to adjust the whole tip in map for the new injectors.

Were your cranking tables all corrected for the new injectors?

Don't run the fans when the car is moving, it negatively affects airflow. There is some info on here with what the fan modes are, I can't remember off hand, but there are some settings that a few of us run.

I've changed mine so that lift off doesn't decelerate as much. I have them at ~3.5 / 6.5 / 12.2 at the markers you mention.

Easily done, but the pedal will need feathering or a map to do that for you. Beware that the pedal output of the custom maps isn't 0-100 but more like 15-60
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Id make your closed loop fuel tables taper richer similar to your open loop tables once you get past cruising loads like 0.5.


Id turn off any pop custom maps till you get other issues sorted as low load ignition retard can make on/off throttle transition jumpy.


these cars start totally on port injectors and run totally on port for first minute or so regardless of the pi/di ratio tables


so if you have problems with car stalling after start at idle its very likely injector scaling or injector latency related

Thanks for your input Steve,

yeah I have 3 maps, pop tune is separate

"Id make your closed loop fuel tables taper richer similar to your open loop tables once you get past cruising loads like 0.5. "

how do you do that?
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Old 01-04-2019, 07:50 PM   #6
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something like this, this is NA E85 so you will likely be richer in both tables.


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Old 01-04-2019, 10:01 PM   #7
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something like this, this is NA E85 so you will likely be richer in both tables.


thanks for that, so CL is approximately 1.1-1.4 points leaner than OL from my interpretation of that. And all I'll need to do is base it off Primary open loop fuelling table for my one and build the CL compensation table off that

seems managable

Edit: I may be misinterpreting the functionality of the CL compensation table. Is it adding to a lambda 1.0 to come to a CL target?

Last edited by 504; 01-04-2019 at 10:30 PM.
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Old 01-05-2019, 08:20 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by 504 View Post
thanks for that, so CL is approximately 1.1-1.4 points leaner than OL from my interpretation of that. And all I'll need to do is base it off Primary open loop fuelling table for my one and build the CL compensation table off that

seems managable

Edit: I may be misinterpreting the functionality of the CL compensation table. Is it adding to a lambda 1.0 to come to a CL target?



Ecutek amd romraider represent the CL fuel tables differently in ecutek its straight afr in romraider the actual afr is 14.7 + value in cl table. So if -1.2 in table cl target is 14.7-1.2=13.5
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Old 01-05-2019, 08:21 AM   #9
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Easily done, but the pedal will need feathering or a map to do that for you. Beware that the pedal output of the custom maps isn't 0-100 but more like 15-60
i d kindly need your experience for me to better understand this if you don t mind

interested in what OP want to achieve, i do not see the overrun ignition timing voice on the custom output list but only "ignition base timing" that i guess is just adressed to what would be the "base timing B" map on romraider
and only the accelerator angle (%) that i suppose would go from 0 to 100
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Old 01-05-2019, 05:58 PM   #10
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i d kindly need your experience for me to better understand this if you don t mind

interested in what OP want to achieve, i do not see the overrun ignition timing voice on the custom output list but only "ignition base timing" that i guess is just adressed to what would be the "base timing B" map on romraider
and only the accelerator angle (%) that i suppose would go from 0 to 100
exactly right, thats my dilemma also, wondering also if the custom map allows for timed off such as one second post overrun to allow for smooth re entry into throttle
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Old 01-06-2019, 07:18 AM   #11
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i d kindly need your experience for me to better understand this if you don t mind
For some reason the Accelerator Pedal custom map output is not 0-100, but it does seem to correlate to 45 (perhaps 4.5v TPS intercept?) but then add 15 to the value. So if you wanted to limit pedal output to 50% you would do (0.5x45)+15. Say you wanted to feather the throttle at 5% throttle, you would need values of (0.05x45)+15. These are approx values and you can see what they are for your car buy creating a map that adds/multiplies the pedal output so it's not changed and log the output.
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wondering also if the custom map allows for timed off such as one second post overrun to allow for smooth re entry into throttle
Custom maps have delays on and off, so yes this is possible. You can have it so that the map would only become active if you have large pedal usage and therefore only when you want it active and not for smaller pedal movements.
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Old 01-07-2019, 10:50 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Kodename47 View Post
For some reason the Accelerator Pedal custom map output is not 0-100, but it does seem to correlate to 45 (perhaps 4.5v TPS intercept?) but then add 15 to the value. So if you wanted to limit pedal output to 50% you would do (0.5x45)+15. Say you wanted to feather the throttle at 5% throttle, you would need values of (0.05x45)+15. These are approx values and you can see what they are for your car buy creating a map that adds/multiplies the pedal output so it's not changed and log the output.
Unfortunately, the values are not fixed. They tend to wander off the more miles you drive. So if zero is e.g. 15 on a fresh flash, it might be e.g. 13 after driving the car for a while.

Subsequently, the problem arise if you want it to feather a certain amount - like e.g. 3% "real" accelerator pedal (from 0 - 100), and e.g 18 is the required value to do that and zero point 15 will let 18 produce 3% - when zero changes to 13, the value 18 all of a sudden produces e.g. 8% real pedal and what was supposed to just be a light feathering of the throttle now means the car is accelerating and driving by itself instead.

I suspect it has to do with the pedal recalibrating but still didn't figure out the reason exactly. Problem is seen on 3 different cars, so not just an issue with mine.

It's really annoying that Ecutek doesn't let us give in values that relate logically with the logged pedal value. I have so many tables depending on that zero point, that the easiest solution for me is to disconnect the battery when the value wanders off too far.
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Old 01-08-2019, 02:13 PM   #13
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It's really annoying that Ecutek doesn't let us give in values that relate logically with the logged pedal value. I have so many tables depending on that zero point, that the easiest solution for me is to disconnect the battery when the value wanders off too far.
It's no doubt where they are intercepting the code for the pedal that 0-100 would not work. It's very possible that they cannot intercept it elsewhere, ignition timing is a prime example where only base timing can be done, not total timing. Why not lower the zero point to 13 in your instance? I have to say that I have not noticed your issue but then I have not logged this after a long period of running.
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Old 01-08-2019, 02:50 PM   #14
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What kind of custom maps do you guys set up, with accelerator pedal as output?
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