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Old 07-29-2022, 03:18 PM   #1191
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Originally Posted by RedReplicant View Post
I made my NASA classing dyno pulls today, so this would be pretty comparable to anyone else using those settings. In effort to drag my classing horsepower down (it is done with a formula to get an average) and reliability I set the limiter at 7800. NASA average was 196whp, coincidentally same as my old S2000, which is absolutely perfect and what I wanted.

So, since everything here is fairly comparable I give you:
* note: K24 and S2000 dyno graph scales go to 9k, both FA BRZs go to 8k

My dyno today - bone stock KPower K24 swap, pump 91


Full bolt-on first gen BRZ NASA TT5 car, pump 91


Stock plus Cleib catback second gen BRZ NASA TT5 car, pump 91


Full bolt-on AP1 S2000 TT4 (lol) car, pump 91




As for the electrical interference stuff, Fedex legit ate the harness KPower sent me so I filed a claim with them. KPower was kind enough to send me another harness which showed up yesterday, I will test it tonight.
Solid man!!!! You are right where pretty much everyone else is at.

Do you know the compression of your engine?
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Old 07-29-2022, 03:18 PM   #1192
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Originally Posted by RedReplicant View Post
I made my NASA classing dyno pulls today, so this would be pretty comparable to anyone else using those settings. In effort to drag my classing horsepower down (it is done with a formula to get an average) and reliability I set the limiter at 7800. NASA average was 196whp, coincidentally same as my old S2000, which is absolutely perfect and what I wanted.

So, since everything here is fairly comparable I give you:
* note: K24 and S2000 dyno graph scales go to 9k, both FA BRZs go to 8k

My dyno today - bone stock KPower K24 swap, pump 91


Full bolt-on first gen BRZ NASA TT5 car, pump 91


Stock plus Cleib catback second gen BRZ NASA TT5 car, pump 91


Full bolt-on AP1 S2000 TT4 (lol) car, pump 91




As for the electrical interference stuff, Fedex legit ate the harness KPower sent me so I filed a claim with them. KPower was kind enough to send me another harness which showed up yesterday, I will test it tonight.
Solid man!!!! You are right where pretty much everyone else is at.

Do you know the compression of your engine?

Have any acceleration videos like a 2nd gear pull from low RPM to high RPM?
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Old 07-29-2022, 03:30 PM   #1193
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I'm a little surprised looking at the top two graphs, 1. That yours isn't a little higher, I had heard of others dynoing (dynojet) in the two hundred-teens-ish. and also that the BRZ was that high on 91. Anyway, I understand that it isn't a direct comparison.
Here is an overlay, look at the increase in the 5-6k range when you're pulling out of a corner.

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Old 07-29-2022, 03:44 PM   #1194
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Originally Posted by funkjaw View Post
Solid man!!!! You are right where pretty much everyone else is at.

Do you know the compression of your engine?

Have any acceleration videos like a 2nd gear pull from low RPM to high RPM?
The motor measured at 205-210 across all 4 bone cold. It smokes a bit at heavy load, so I think the rings are not in the best shape, unfortunately. Doesn't really hurt anything, but it still makes me want to put another motor into it.

I haven't made any, but my AIM Solo runs whenever the car is driving so I'll see what I can pull off it tonight.

The K24 car has lead to me being somewhat disappointed when I drive my full bolt on FA20 daily driver, unfortunately. The K24 throttle response, huge midrange, eager/playfullness of revs, pulling all the way to the limiter, etc are all blinding when I drive the two.

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I'm a little surprised looking at the top two graphs, 1. That yours isn't a little higher, I had heard of others dynoing (dynojet) in the two hundred-teens-ish. and also that the BRZ was that high on 91. Anyway, I understand that it isn't a direct comparison.
Here is an overlay, look at the increase in the 5-6k range when you're pulling out of a corner.
Thank you for overlaying these, that puts it pretty well into perspective, haha.

I'd hazard a guess that the calibration and smoothing play a factor in your points there... there is one other K24 BRZ that I know of that has been on a NASA classing dyno.

Nick from the facebook group, looks pretty close to mine:

205/175
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Old 07-29-2022, 04:44 PM   #1195
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The K24 car has lead to me being somewhat disappointed when I drive my full bolt on FA20 daily driver, unfortunately. The K24 throttle response, huge midrange, eager/playfullness of revs, pulling all the way to the limiter, etc are all blinding when I drive the two.
So... we k swap the blue car as well?
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Old 07-29-2022, 04:58 PM   #1196
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I haven't made any, but my AIM Solo runs whenever the car is driving so I'll see what I can pull off it tonight.

Have you had it on track yet? I'd love to see some before and after swap data
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Old 07-29-2022, 09:48 PM   #1197
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Originally Posted by RedReplicant View Post
The motor measured at 205-210 across all 4 bone cold. It smokes a bit at heavy load, so I think the rings are not in the best shape, unfortunately. Doesn't really hurt anything, but it still makes me want to put another motor into it.

205/175
That's really healthy! Sounds like either you have leaking valve guide seals or control rings, but either way it's no big deal. I eat about 1 quart of oil per 750 miles on mine; pretty excessive! We did a cylinder leak down test and it showed I have leaking valve guide seals on every cylinder lmao. So I have a 4Piston head on the way. Just gonna swap it onto my stock block with a set of Todo D cams and call it a day until the bottom end goes.
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Old 07-29-2022, 09:53 PM   #1198
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Have you had it on track yet? I'd love to see some before and after swap data
I haven't, it is our off season here in Arizona The only data I have before is the few days I did with the car at 320whp before pulling it apart. I'll see what I can do when the time comes though.

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That's really healthy! Sounds like either you have leaking valve guide seals or control rings, but either way it's no big deal. I eat about 1 quart of oil per 750 miles on mine; pretty excessive! We did a cylinder leak down test and it showed I have leaking valve guide seals on every cylinder lmao. So I have a 4Piston head on the way. Just gonna swap it onto my stock block with a set of Todo D cams and call it a day until the bottom end goes.
I bought a set of valve guides because that was my hope too, but I think they should show pretty much only only on decel / cold start... so I think you're right that it is the oil control rings. rip

I'm really curious to see how yours does with the Todas/head, the way the torque falls off above 5200ish on these seems to say it all.

I went out to test the oil temp stuff, here is a 1-2 pull and then a full 3rd gear pull for you.



Shielding the two DBW signal wires on the engine harness side didn't fix the issue, for what it is worth. I have shielded jumper harness wires for those two also, but I'm not real optimistic.

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Old 07-30-2022, 01:39 PM   #1199
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I went out to test the oil temp stuff, here is a 1-2 pull and then a full 3rd gear pull for you.

Thanks for the vid!

We have very similar acceleration. I seem to be a little quicker, but I'm also on E85 with 4.33s so I would hope I am!

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Shielding the two DBW signal wires on the engine harness side didn't fix the issue, for what it is worth. I have shielded jumper harness wires for those two also, but I'm not real optimistic.
This is rather disappointing. I am still fighting this issue and while being a daily driver it's not that big of a deal, it still annoys the heck out of me. Please keep us posted on any further updates.
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Old 07-30-2022, 10:07 PM   #1200
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I was reading a bit today and saw this article from Haltech:
https://www.haltech.com/news-events/...dos-and-donts/

and this post on HPAcademy, specifically the one by Chris250
https://www.hpacademy.com/forum/gene...round-question

Two sections stood out to me:
Quote:
This second example is one that I used to use when I interviewed support engineers to work for us, but I guess now I'll have to think of another question to evaluate people. It's actually a mistake made by Mazda in the factory NA6 MX5 / Miata loom; they fixed it on the next model (the NA8). The sensor ground is externally grounded to the engine, as well as to the ECU. The ECU is grounded to the engine also. We know that as the injector duty cycle increases, the average ground current of the ECU will also increase, and therefore so will the voltage drop between the ECU and the engine. The ECU ground will be sitting at a slightly higher voltage than the engine ground, so any sensors connected to the engine ground instead of to sensor ground on the ECU, will read a lower voltage. In the case of coolant temperature, it means that as injector duty cycle increases, the voltage seen by the ECU on the coolant temperature input reduces and the ECU believes the engine is at a higher temperture. This is fairly easy to spot in logs; you can look for noise on inputs such as coolant temperature, throttle position etc, but it causes problems for obvious reasons.
Quote:
Sensors, if they have the ground isolated from the sensor body (for example TPS, pressure, temperature sensors), they must be grounded to the sensor ground on the ECU, not the engine ground. The reason for this is as given in the second example above; if you ground the sensor to the engine ground, then its output is going to be offset by the ground current times the ground resistance. This is why ECUs have dedicated sensor ground wires.

Sooo, I unplugged the ECU and found that the sensor ground still had continuity. Started pulling grounds and found that the sensor ground wire was being grounded through the two eye rings on the valve cover.

I plugged the ECU back in without those two eye rings grounded and the ECU wouldn't turn on. When I grounded either of the two valve cover eye rings and the ECU powered on.

Seems like progress is being made, I guess.
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Old 07-30-2022, 11:25 PM   #1201
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Sooo, I unplugged the ECU and found that the sensor ground still had continuity. Started pulling grounds and found that the sensor ground wire was being grounded through the two eye rings on the valve cover.

I plugged the ECU back in without those two eye rings grounded and the ECU wouldn't turn on. When I grounded either of the two valve cover eye rings and the ECU powered on.

Seems like progress is being made, I guess.
What would happen if you grounded the ecu to the chassis?
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Old 07-31-2022, 01:01 AM   #1202
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What would happen if you grounded the ecu to the chassis?
It might resolve some issues, but I'm going to put the ball back in KPower's court. I spent the last three hours pulling the Haltech, adapter board, engine harness and checking continuity everywhere.

Ends up that the engine harness shares ground for every thing on it from sensors to coils to ECU, rather than having a separate sensor ground.

Easiest way to check to see if your harness has this issue is to unplug the AC1 plug, unbolt the two ring connectors from the valve cover, stick an ohm meter on one, and stick an ohm meter into one of the sensor grounds like the oil pressure/temp sensor. If there is continuity then there is shared ground between sensors and everything else.



Now you can all quit listening to me talk like a crack smoker about oil temps. I'm assuming this has also been affecting crank position sensors, cam position sensors, etc since they also share the ground.
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Old 07-31-2022, 02:05 AM   #1203
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Wanted to share this anomaly that I'm now wondering if it's related to the interference issues that RedReplicant is posting about..

Fresh oil change with 5w30 and a can of "engine restore" compression fix additive. Fire the car up, drive it halfway down the block, car starts misfire and loses tons of power and idles real low. I drive it around the block back home, plug in my laptop and see this code which mind you shows as "Past" and not an active code:

As the car is idling (erratic and low), it starts slowly getting better and better as if it is re-calibrating itself. Within a few minutes the car runs normal again: great idle, smooth and full power. Hasn't done it since, it's been about 700 miles.

Any ideas?
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Old 07-31-2022, 03:25 AM   #1204
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Wanted to share this anomaly that I'm now wondering if it's related to the interference issues that RedReplicant is posting about..

Fresh oil change with 5w30 and a can of "engine restore" compression fix additive. Fire the car up, drive it halfway down the block, car starts misfire and loses tons of power and idles real low. I drive it around the block back home, plug in my laptop and see this code which mind you shows as "Past" and not an active code:

As the car is idling (erratic and low), it starts slowly getting better and better as if it is re-calibrating itself. Within a few minutes the car runs normal again: great idle, smooth and full power. Hasn't done it since, it's been about 700 miles.

Any ideas?
any other sensor going wild? if not most likely just learning procedure.
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