Brakes, Brakes, and more Brakes

[sav]

Yellow front and rear?

[JouMaSeHoes]

Originally Posted by sav

Yellow front and rear?

Yep

[sav]

Okay then scrap that idea...

[FT_86_SM_GP]

Interesting video

Coefficient of friction Vs Temp

[ame]http://youtu.be/sOzd5o8B7eA[/ame]

[FT_86_SM_GP]

I also emailed EBC brakes in the UK and directed them to links on this forum of guys using EBC yellow stuff and cooking pads after 1 track session. This is their response.

"Hi Shiren, most of the criticism we get on forums is because people have not followed the basic bed in procedure, ether road or track or they expect miles and miles of track life or frankly don’t know what they are talking about. Our yellow stuff pads are excellent road and track day pads but you should still only expect 1-3 hours of on track use but this does depend on driving style and track layout. Under heavy use the surface of the pads looks pitted and crumbly not glossy and smooth which is what most people expect but this just shows the pad is working and friction material is being pulled from the pad, a bit like a pencil eraser on paper. It is important to remember that brake pads are consumables just like tyres and petrol.

Slotted discs, will increase performance by cooling the discs and de-gassing the pads they will also reduce the pad life as they scour the surface to keep the freshest friction surface available. Reduction in life is a natural compromise to higher friction and our pads will not work any better or last longer with another manufacturers discs but they will still work fine. If in doubt or you want the highest possible life from you pads just stick to plain discs and give yourself the most surface area on which to brake.

It is essential for you to balance the braking front and rear. If you use standard pads on the rears the will fade after just a few corners and then you are putting all the work and all the weight onto the fronts so they are bound to overheat and fail.

I hope this answers your questions and you feel confident enough to try our pads and discs while still understanding their limitations during race use.



Kind regards

Mike Cooper

Technical Data Adviser

01604 583344

"

[FT_86_SM_GP]

Conclusion: EBC says their Yellow stuff pads are designed to last 1 - 3 hours of track use.

If you do the calculations, (20min sessions, 4 to 5 sessions in one track day?) Yellow stuff pads lasting for 2 to 3 track days sounds about right.

How long on average does the Endless brake pads last ?

(Just trying to see weather the price of the Endless pads (approx R3k) is worth it Vs buying 2 sets of yellow stuff pads (2 x R1500 which will last 4 to 6 track days)

Edited: did not take into consideration the following:

EBC recommends rear pads as well

I am assuming the guys running Endless pads on the Standard 86 are running stock pads at the rear ?

Which would work out to the same pricing . Looks like Endless pads are the winner in my opinion

[Ryan86]

Originally Posted by FT_86_SM_GP

Conclusion: EBC says their Yellow stuff pads are designed to last 1 - 3 hours of track use.

If you do the calculations, (20min sessions, 4 to 5 sessions in one track day?) Yellow stuff pads lasting for 2 to 3 track days sounds about right.

How long on average does the Endless brake pads last ?

(Just trying to see weather the price of the Endless pads (approx R3k) is worth it Vs buying 2 sets of yellow stuff pads (2 x R1500 which will last 4 to 6 track days)

Edited: did not take into consideration the following:

EBC recommends rear pads as well

I am assuming the guys running Endless pads on the Standard 86 are running stock pads at the rear ?

Which would work out to the same pricing . Looks like Endless pads are the winner in my opinion

4 cars we have on Endless have all lasted 1 to 2 track days max. Those on Endless are switching to EBC due to cost factor.
Interesting on the rear as both Powerbrake and Vari have advised no need for rear change as the 86 uses very little on the rear.

Based on the cost of a entry level BBK, we did some calculations and believe although BBK is R14500 vs R7k upgrade kit, it may be cheaper in the long run to purchase a BBK due to less wear on pads.
just a theory at this stage , which we testing.
2 cars on Vari BBK with EBC Blue vs 2 cars on PB Endless upgrade kit.
2 track days coming up in KZN, so let's see what happens.

[Fish Eagle]

Originally Posted by Ryan86

4 cars we have on Endless have all lasted 1 to 2 track days max.

Huh???
What track days have you guys had in KZN? I only know of one at Hesketh, and Hesketh is gentle on brakes.

I've done 21 track days (mainly Midvaal, Zwartkops and Red Star), all on Endless MX72/PB05 except my very first track day which was on stockies and I nearly killed myself when they failed. I'm now on my 4th set of front pads which I put on between track days 19 and 20. I'm on the smaller standard spec brakes, and I can assure you that I'm not gentle on them.

I've personally seen what Rob Green's Yellow Stuff looked like after one session at Red Star. He had to take them off, and asked me if I had a spare set of pads for him. Which I didn't because he's got hi-spec brakes. He was blaming himself for not having cooled them down properly. Please, pads don't disintegrate because you don't cool them properly...

There's no way I'll ever put Yellow Stuff on my car. I'll wipe them out in one session.

[Freedom]

Braking hard for a shorter period of time seems to help. That is what I did. I've only done two track days on stock brakes, one at Zwartkops and one at Red Star and both times I spent the whole day, 4 sessions at Redstar and I got about 6-7 at Zwartkops although it was raining for half the day so I wasn't doing hard sessions in the rain. Actually, it rained at Red Star too so I wonder if that helps. I also did a HECTIC run with the crazies at Nelspruit.

My brakes feel fine although my brake fluid was ruined and I have changed that. I am having to wonder now how much brake life I have left on my pads.

[JouMaSeHoes]

"crazies at Nelspruit"

Nope, none of those here. All bunny huggers and flower children.

[CWP68]

Personally I wouldn't use cost as a factor with something as important as brakes. And I'm very happy with the Endless pads so will stick with them.
I also saw what was left of Rob's Yellowstuff pads at Red Star.

[LostSalad]

For scientific documentation purposes, this is what my Endless pads look like after Zwartkops:

[FT_86_SM_GP]

Originally Posted by LostSalad

For scientific documentation purposes, this is what my Endless pads look like after Zwartkops:

Yasie and these are after 2 track days?
(RedStar and Zwartkops)

(Approx 4 to 5 sessions per track day?)

(Ie. Aprrox 2hour's of track)

Just to confirm you have the Endless PB05?

Endless Pads - R2274
Endless PB05 - R2720.04

You also have the Powerbrake slotted discs, Motul RBF660 Brake fluid and SS lines?
Stock rear discs and pads?

[LostSalad]

Originally Posted by FT_86_SM_GP

Yasie and these are after 2 track days?
(RedStar and Zwartkops)

(Approx 4 to 5 sessions per track day?)

(Ie. Aprrox 2hour's of track)

Just to confirm you have the Endless PB05?

Endless Pads - R2274
Endless PB05 - R2720.04

You also have the Powerbrake slotted discs, Motul RBF660 Brake fluid and SS lines?
Stock rear discs and pads?

Yup: Endless PB05 pads, PB slotted discs, Motul RBF660, SS lines all round, stock rear pads and discs. I took their matched upgrade kit.

Red Star was a bit slower because first track day and rainy weather. I did end up using the brakes quite hard, but nothing that you wouldn't expect at such an event.

Zwartkops I was a bit harder on them, but again, I was just driving really hard, not doing anything out of the ordinary. In the afternoon when the instructor took my car out his first reaction was "wtf brakes are gone", and my reaction was "wtf, brakes are gone??".

I'm still waiting on PB for feedback