New Throttle body is it worth the money?

[justinh77]

So im new to the forums so i hope im posting in the right category.

i've bin modding my frs with bolt-ons starting from the intake and working my way down the exhaust. I have came across thread about the cusco throttle body and read the $1k is not worth it at all for the product which i fully agree.

BUT, the other day i came across the grams 72mm throttle body for 400$ and it apparently gives just below a 50% increase of airflow.

http://www.ft86speedfactory.com/gram...l#.WBLSWODx7IV

YAY or NAY?
i'd like to hear your opinions about it before i regret buying it ahaha. Thnx

[menikmati]

Short answer: No.

Long answer: Nooooooooooooooooooo.

[steve99]

Not seen any dyno results that indicate significant gains on NA or boosted cars with bigger throttle bodies.

The throttle body may be capable of flowing more air but the engine , intake and exhaust would need to all flow better to take advantage of the throttle body flow.

People running 15 psi or more boost on stock throttle body.

On an NA car the things that will get you most of the gains for least outlay are tune, catless header, E85 fuel and a drop in filter in stock intake. After that you will spend heaps for little more on an NA car, save your $$$$ for fi or another car after those mods.

see Basic Bolt on Mods Guide link below

[Irace86]

what he said... except I would say just core the stock header for best bang for buck outcome. Anyone dropping big bucks on a header is wasting money, but that's just my opinion.

[TilesMeague]

So it seems like a big focus in this thread is bang for your buck performance wise, but I really get a kick out of the sounds too. The Dinan throttle bodies on my dads e46 sound amazing and I'm wondering if the same would be expected for an 86?

[Hawk77FT]

Originally Posted by Irace86

what he said... except I would say just core the stock header for best bang for buck outcome. Anyone dropping big bucks on a header is wasting money, but that's just my opinion.

Anyone dropping big bucks on a S#it header is wasting money, but that's just my opinion.

There, i fixed it for you. There are couple of headers out there that outperformed the stock header by miles. If your opinion would have been somewhat true, we would see no gains whatsoever from changing the header on NA or even FI (SC in particular). Your statement however is very very true if you are talking about intakes where people drop serious coin on something that will make fa difference when compared to a drop in filter.

[Irace86]

Originally Posted by Hawk77FT

Anyone dropping big bucks on a S#it header is wasting money, but that's just my opinion.

There, i fixed it for you. There are couple of headers out there that outperformed the stock header by miles. If your opinion would have been somewhat true, we would see no gains whatsoever from changing the header on NA or even FI (SC in particular). Your statement however is very very true if you are talking about intakes where people drop serious coin on something that will make fa difference when compared to a drop in filter.

I think a guy like me, who owns a welder, can weld in a straight pipe after decoring the cat for under ten bucks. Compare that to a header that is $500-1500, and the cost to hp gain is in my favor.

[Hawk77FT]

I guess all aftermarket industry, race teams got it all wrong man! Damn, so it's just cat Cs no cat these days! And save money. Cheers man

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[D_Thissen]

IIRC someone had there car dyno'd with the bigger tb and picked up around 10-12whp on the top end. They also were boosted (C38 blower I think) with header, full exhaust running e70. 320whp seems to stick out in my head.

[nikitopo]

This modification is quite popular in Japan among specific tuners (e.g. ASM). It's not only about top end gains, but most important about torque gains in the low-mid rpm range. In Western countries it is not very common. I guess the cost will be quite high, because tuner/manufacturer will need to order a new throttle body from the factory. The OEM throttle body is expensive. Additionally, it requires boring the part which is not an easy task. Overall, it is a modification with a high cost and a potential of very low profits ...

[gramicci101]

If you've already done FI and full exhaust and intake and flex fuel and tune and everything else short of modifying engine internals, and you know the throttle body is actually restricting your airflow, then yes. At that point, it becomes beneficial. It's already larger than the engine needs, so you have a lot of modifying to do before you max it out.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

If you've already done FI and full exhaust and intake and flex fuel and tune and everything else short of modifying engine internals, and you know the throttle body is actually restricting your airflow, then yes. At that point, it becomes beneficial. It's already larger than the engine needs, so you have a lot of modifying to do before you max it out.

This^


There is no magic bolt on that does miracles all on it's own. Each part has to be considered in relation to the whole and not looked at as, this part = this gain. Not impossible to think that a larger TB without supporting parts and a tune could actually decrease performance.
Reading manufacture's claims of "this part will do this for you" can be a bit of a trap so the OP did the right thing in researching.

[nikitopo]

Personally, I asked a respectable manufacturer and they told me that a bigger throttle body works even with everything else stock. Additionally, it will give better gains with a tune (i.e., MAF re-program) and even better gains with a free-flow exhaust. All the previous changes are additive and help each other.

In fact, the story behind the Gazoo racing intake started when some shops played with independent throttle bodies. The results were quite successful that Toyota started to engineer them, including additional changes on the rest of the intake and multiple intake runners.




I guess cost limitations and emission standards don't let the manufacturer to include these changes in the base car.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Personally, I asked a respectable manufacturer and they told me that a bigger throttle body works even with everything else stock. Additionally, it will give better gains with a tune (i.e., MAF re-program) and even better gains with a free-flow exhaust. All the previous changes are additive and help each other.

Were they talking about cars in general, or about these cars specifically? Some cars come with small (for engine size) TB's and can make huge gains. Our TB's are actually pretty huge for a 2L engine, and are bigger than what lots of people upgrade to on other 2L engines. A bigger TB might *feel* faster at part throttle because for 15* of throttle opening lets in more air, but that doesn't mean it's going to make a single hp more at WOT.

Originally Posted by nikitopo

In fact, the story behind the Gazoo racing intake started when some shops played with independent throttle bodies. The results were quite successful that Toyota started to engineer them, including additional changes on the rest of the intake and multiple intake runners.




I guess cost limitations and emission standards don't let the manufacturer to include these changes in the base car.

That looks like dual runners, not ITB's... the idea with dual runners (or variable runner length) is to run longer runners at low RPM to help power in that range and then the shorter runners at high RPM for more power.

Hardly a new idea, engines back as far as the early 90's (or maybe earlier) had manifolds like that.