Anyone with a 23' order heard their car is built?

[Thatllbuffout]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

Love all the white knighting for greedy stealerships and their sleazy salespeople who will lie, deflect, and engage in pathetic psychological games (Upto game, Four square, etc.) to try to get you to pay more...

I gave uptrying to convice them that dealerships are useless. I worked at one, I saw what they did to people. It's awful. The arguement could be made then customers need to be smarter with their money and say no or walk away. Truth is many just don't know any better. Many have never purchased a car before. For most a car is the second largest purchase they will ever make in their lives and have no experience negotiating or how to protect themselves from being taken advantage of. When a young female walked into the showroom it was like blood in the water to sharks. They'd feed her so much bullshit that she'd end up leaving way over budget with all the packages and 20% APR on a used Yaris. Then they'd come back to my porter area and high five each other about it.

Dealerships will sooner or later go away and I will not be sad.

[Kemm84]

Hey guys - new to the forum and just getting back into car scene. I’ve been lurking on this thread as I am waiting on a 23’ WRB Limited MT.

Ordered May 9th @ dealership near Baltimore, MD. Received order sheet with VON same day with August estimated delivery. Still no VIN, but reached out to SOA earlier this week and they say it’s still showing August delivery and to try back next week for a VIN.

I’m just piling up parts in the meantime lol.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

Love all the white knighting for greedy stealerships and their sleazy salespeople who will lie, deflect, and engage in pathetic psychological games (Upto game, Four square, etc.) to try to get you to pay more...


Sales people generally add nothing positive (except a higher OTD cost) to any of the experiences I've had buying cars. I always know more about the car and its features, I always walk in pre-qualified with excellent credit if I'm not paying all cash, and having to wait while the salespeople "talk" with their manager/sales manager/gm every time we are trying to reach a fair deal is a waste of time.


This is why I only now deal with sales managers/internet sales over email (IN WRITING) so the dealership employees can't make-up random excuses for why the price is suddenly higher, that they made a mistake with the numbers, etc.

If you have a shady salesforce it is because they have a shady manager. Not sure how dealing directly with that manager helps. Most of the online replies are done by some random sales guy from the floor so again no real difference. If it makes you feel better that you somehow pulled one over on them then great.

Originally Posted by Thatllbuffout

I gave uptrying to convice them that dealerships are useless. I worked at one, I saw what they did to people. It's awful. The arguement could be made then customers need to be smarter with their money and say no or walk away. Truth is many just don't know any better. Many have never purchased a car before. For most a car is the second largest purchase they will ever make in their lives and have no experience negotiating or how to protect themselves from being taken advantage of. When a young female walked into the showroom it was like blood in the water to sharks. They'd feed her so much bullshit that she'd end up leaving way over budget with all the packages and 20% APR on a used Yaris. Then they'd come back to my porter area and high five each other about it.

Dealerships will sooner or later go away and I will not be sad.

My simple point has been that not all dealerships are the same. Yes some are shady and that sucks. Your personal sample size of one does not reflect the whole industry.
This is the information era and if somebody won't do the same research about buying a car as they would on their lipstick purchase then that is on them.
There are far more entitled d1ckhead customers that walk into a dealership than there are bad salespeople.

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

If you have a shady salesforce it is because they have a shady manager. Not sure how dealing directly with that manager helps. Most of the online replies are done by some random sales guy from the floor so again no real difference. If it makes you feel better that you somehow pulled one over on them then great.


My simple point has been that not all dealerships are the same. Yes some are shady and that sucks. Your personal sample size of one does not reflect the whole industry.
This is the information era and if somebody won't do the same research about buying a car as they would on their lipstick purchase then that is on them.
There are far more entitled d1ckhead customers that walk into a dealership than there are bad salespeople.

And what data or evidence do you have to back your assertions? All you have are your experiences in your little bubble in a whole different country. My experiences and those of people I know are all that I have.


I'm not trying to pull one over on anyone, I want a fair price (SEE REASONABLE) like anyone else.


But since you clearly have an industry bias, and believe you know everything, there is not much point in continuing with you further.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

And what data or evidence do you have to back your assertions? All you have are your experiences in your little bubble in a whole different country. My experiences and those of people I know are all that I have.


I'm not trying to pull one over on anyone, I want a fair price (SEE REASONABLE) like anyone else.


But since you clearly have an industry bias, and believe you know everything, there is not much point in continuing with you further.

As opposed to your bias, sample size and over reaching knowledge?

Fun that when you say things they are facts but when countered any statements are trash.

Even in the US it is a total impossibility that every single dealership and salesman is a cheater and scam artist.

It is indeed the consumers job to get a reasonable price. It is the dealers job to get the most money they can THROUGH HONEST MEANS. There is a place in the middle where things are fair for everybody.

As usual there can not be a discussion of anything without people resorting to insults and non relevant slams.

Entitlement rules here!!!!!!

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

And what data or evidence do you have to back your assertions? All you have are your experiences in your little bubble in a whole different country. My experiences and those of people I know are all that I have.
I'm not trying to pull one over on anyone, I want a fair price (SEE REASONABLE) like anyone else.
But since you clearly have an industry bias, and believe you know everything, there is not much point in continuing with you further.

First, I love how you and your little very young and very naive cohort think that anybody that doesn't automatically agree that dealerships all suck, are all filled with shady individuals, and everything and anything they do is useless and unethical is "white-knighting" dealerships. I have never said anything even CLOSE to that point. In fact, I AGREED that in this day and age dealerships probably aren't necessary and I look forward to a day when most (probably all) manufacturers offer direct-order type arrangements for those who want to use them. I (and you and your little friend) would certainly be in the group that would choose to never walk into another dealership if they had the choice.

So you can stick it where the sun don't shine as far as thinking I am in love with dealerships and/or the people that work there. I don't love them/I don't hate them. I do understand why they do what they do (free market - hello??) and that given that the company that manufactures the car that I want but to buy (in this instance) doesn't offer me any alternative but to buy the car that I want from a dealership, I ACCEPT the fact that they are (for now) a necessary evil.

I am in favor of the free market and everything that means. I like it when it helps me (i.e. the fact that I bought my BRZ for probably very close to what the dealer paid for it screwing him, and also that I sold that same BRZ to Vroom for way more than I thought it was worth because, at that time that is what the market demanded) and I like it when it doesn't help me (i.e. right now trying to buy a new car at MSRP- particularly a very desirable car like the GR86 that is in short supply).

I am not some petulant child that only likes the free market when it helps me. And, as you recall in this instance, the buyer had a signed agreement with the dealer for a certain deal that included a B.S. add-on of lease damage insurance that amounted to the dealer essentially getting the market value for the car he was going to sell. The original buyer then went back on his agreement to lease and the dealer was left scrambling for a way to get the market value out of the car that he planned on (and deserved). I was fine with the original buyer walking away when the dealer said that would come in the form of $1,500 rust protection as that would allow the dealer to go out and get market value for the car. I am happy that the customer and the dealer negotiated an acceptable solution for both.

And if you and your little cohort can't understand these relatively simple economic concepts, I am not sure what else I can say.

[imnotsureaboutbrz]

Originally Posted by Kemm84

Hey guys - new to the forum and just getting back into car scene. I’ve been lurking on this thread as I am waiting on a 23’ WRB Limited MT.

Ordered May 9th @ dealership near Baltimore, MD. Received order sheet with VON same day with August estimated delivery. Still no VIN, but reached out to SOA earlier this week and they say it’s still showing August delivery and to try back next week for a VIN.

I’m just piling up parts in the meantime lol.

welcome! I'm happy to hear someone else is in the same boat. I too have been told a August delivery with no VIN yet. Hopefully soon fingers crossed. I already have wheels and corner lights waiting for it... so it HAS to show up. Also hearing rumors that 2023 orders have closed adds to the anxiety of waiting...

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by imnotsureaboutbrz

welcome! I'm happy to hear someone else is in the same boat. I too have been told a August delivery with no VIN yet. Hopefully soon fingers crossed. I already have wheels and corner lights waiting for it... so it HAS to show up. Also hearing rumors that 2023 orders have closed adds to the anxiety of waiting...

You have heard that 2023 orders are closed? That would make things interesting. I have not heard that it has closed.
Since they only opened sales in May that is a very short window if true!

[Kemm84]

Originally Posted by imnotsureaboutbrz

welcome! I'm happy to hear someone else is in the same boat. I too have been told a August delivery with no VIN yet. Hopefully soon fingers crossed. I already have wheels and corner lights waiting for it... so it HAS to show up. Also hearing rumors that 2023 orders have closed adds to the anxiety of waiting...

Yea the wait is killing me and my wallet as I have to keep telling myself to stop buying stuff for a car I don’t have yet. I also have a set of wheels waiting, 18x8.5 Motegi Traklites on Cooper Zeon tires. Others are mostly cosmetic other than a set of ISC coilovers and HKS Spec L exhaust.

[imnotsureaboutbrz]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

You have heard that 2023 orders are closed? That would make things interesting. I have not heard that it has closed.
Since they only opened sales in May that is a very short window if true!

I saw a post on a Reddit group that someone went to their local dealership hoping to order a car and they were told that ordering was closed. No idea if it was for the year or temporary.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by imnotsureaboutbrz

I saw a post on a Reddit group that someone went to their local dealership hoping to order a car and they were told that ordering was closed. No idea if it was for the year or temporary.

OH OK so as you said it is a very basic rumour. Not like dealerships haven't given wrong info before.

[Pat]

My dealer told me a month ago that ordering was closed. I called August 2nd and was told it had just reopened.

[BioRebel]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

First, I love how you and your little very young and very naive cohort think that anybody that doesn't automatically agree that dealerships all suck, are all filled with shady individuals, and everything and anything they do is useless and unethical is "white-knighting" dealerships. I have never said anything even CLOSE to that point. In fact, I AGREED that in this day and age dealerships probably aren't necessary and I look forward to a day when most (probably all) manufacturers offer direct-order type arrangements for those who want to use them. I (and you and your little friend) would certainly be in the group that would choose to never walk into another dealership if they had the choice.

So you can stick it where the sun don't shine as far as thinking I am in love with dealerships and/or the people that work there. I don't love them/I don't hate them. I do understand why they do what they do (free market - hello??) and that given that the company that manufactures the car that I want but to buy (in this instance) doesn't offer me any alternative but to buy the car that I want from a dealership, I ACCEPT the fact that they are (for now) a necessary evil.

I am in favor of the free market and everything that means. I like it when it helps me (i.e. the fact that I bought my BRZ for probably very close to what the dealer paid for it screwing him, and also that I sold that same BRZ to Vroom for way more than I thought it was worth because, at that time that is what the market demanded) and I like it when it doesn't help me (i.e. right now trying to buy a new car at MSRP- particularly a very desirable car like the GR86 that is in short supply).

I am not some petulant child that only likes the free market when it helps me. And, as you recall in this instance, the buyer had a signed agreement with the dealer for a certain deal that included a B.S. add-on of lease damage insurance that amounted to the dealer essentially getting the market value for the car he was going to sell. The original buyer then went back on his agreement to lease and the dealer was left scrambling for a way to get the market value out of the car that he planned on (and deserved). I was fine with the original buyer walking away when the dealer said that would come in the form of $1,500 rust protection as that would allow the dealer to go out and get market value for the car. I am happy that the customer and the dealer negotiated an acceptable solution for both.

And if you and your little cohort can't understand these relatively simple economic concepts, I am not sure what else I can say.

A) Dealerships are a byproduct of regulatory capture and not "free market"
B) How would you like to look for a new TV. Find a decently priced model online, only to arrive in store to find a "10% market adjustment". And then have to go around to multiple stores in-person just to find one that wasn't going to add 10% to the price OR make the sale dependent on some "extended warranty"? Pretty shitty right? Like REALLY close to some kind of bait and switch scheme.


Also not saying all dealerships are scum, but ones that exploit peoples ignorance and set "market values" that price people out of the market are.

[CaptainFenderbaum]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

Sales people generally add nothing positive (except a higher OTD cost) to any of the experiences I've had buying cars. I always know more about the car and its features, I always walk in pre-qualified with excellent credit if I'm not paying all cash, and having to wait while the salespeople "talk" with their manager/sales manager/gm every time we are trying to reach a fair deal is a waste of time.


This is why I only now deal with sales managers/internet sales over email (IN WRITING) so the dealership employees can't make-up random excuses for why the price is suddenly higher, that they made a mistake with the numbers, etc.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

If you have a shady salesforce it is because they have a shady manager. Not sure how dealing directly with that manager helps. Most of the online replies are done by some random sales guy from the floor so again no real difference. If it makes you feel better that you somehow pulled one over on them then great.

You misunderstood the import part of the advice the Wolf was giving (which he conveniently capitalized for emphasis). The point was that when dealing with snakes, it's wise to get things in writing. The specific title of the person you're dealing with is mostly beside the point.