New OFT Tune optimized for USDM E85 EL with Enhanced Performance vs OTS/Wayno's!

[steve99]

Originally Posted by Chimera

I have B01C.
Anyways, I am looking at table defs here and on waynos thread. I am less interested in gas savings and more so in reliable starts, so I am looking into a hybrid of the oft and Wayno as well, mostly sticking to oft. On the topic, if I use waynos defs, and open the stg 2 oft el e85 for B01C, and start moving table data everything appears fine to me. Is this correct or am I just missing the problem areas with the new defs and the standard oft rom?
I really hope I am making sense and not sounding stupid.

soundsok oft v2 tunes for B01C are actually based on B01C.

always check the tables in both roms to make sure they look ok and dont contain rubbish data or blank and the table axis look ok. if anthing looks weird dont just copy over it their is something wrong roms and defs likely mismatched.

[Chimera]

Originally Posted by steve99

soundsok oft v2 tunes for B01C are actually based on B01C.

always check the tables in both roms to make sure they look ok and dont contain rubbish data or blank and the table axis look ok. if anthing looks weird dont just copy over it their is something wrong roms and defs likely mismatched.

So.. I'm not entirely sure this is right, and risk adverse to bricked ECU.
using waynos defs for both B01C and A01G
opening a stg 2 el e85 B01C.bin as a baseline from the 2.068 distro
then opening waynos
stg2 UEL e85 v85 A01G.bin from his thread

and copying tables data to the first, when I use the compare images function, it informs me that I have 37 tables missing. (it also mentions tables like Manifold Pressure Sensor Limits (CEL) as being different)

I am concerned about 37 missing tables.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by Chimera

So.. I'm not entirely sure this is right, and risk adverse to bricked ECU.
using waynos defs for both B01C and A01G
opening a stg 2 el e85 B01C.bin as a baseline from the 2.068 distro
then opening waynos
stg2 UEL e85 v85 A01G.bin from his thread

and copying tables data to the first, when I use the compare images function, it informs me that I have 37 tables missing. (it also mentions tables like Manifold Pressure Sensor Limits (CEL) as being different)

I am concerned about 37 missing tables.

Some defs have more tables defined than others, if one def has more\less tables defined when your doung a compare then you get that message

[BRZ Fanboi]

Originally Posted by nelsmar

1) I was referencing both san diego and ocean side. Hell lets toss in most of the LA region.
2) Ive likely pumped more gallons of E85 in my FRS in the last year in southern California than you have in its existence. All with an analyzer plugged in.
3) I see higher ethanol content in Phoenix consistently than any area in southern California that I have happened to notice (I don't even look at the gauge all that often but when traveling sometimes I do).
4) Ive probably burnt more E85 up on the dyno in other peoples FRS/BRZ's than you pumped into your car on E85.
5) You can push a car past MBT and have an IAM of 1. @VitViper already covered this one. On 91 octane you end up knocking before hitting MBT giving you an idea of where timing should go. On E85 you can go past MBT and the combustion could be happening during the compression stroke without any feedback on the knock sensor. This causes extra wear on the engine. There is a nice post laying around by argee or something like that. I can't remember his exact name but he was kind enough to post some cylinder pressure logs of firing at multiple degree's of advance showing the increase of pressure that occurs when you combust during the compression stroke.

I would tend to think I might have a slight bit of an understanding of how the fuel works, and what is being pumped in the cars considering I actually have data based of of data logs, dyno logs, and sensors.

Also I didn't bother opening the log or the ROM. I have no idea where your timing is. I was replying from my phone at the time. Im not saying it isn't great. I am just saying that you saying it is great based off how it "felt" is a poor way to judge something. I use actual data to present what is great rather than my opinion how the car feels it "might" be accelerating.

I am not talking crap but let me ask you this. How does your apparently intimate knowledge of how E85 works have any relevance to the quality of E85 in a given location? The Pearson Fuels pumps in my area, (San Diego County), are guaranteed 85% ethanol. If you ever happen to visit San Diego county again you can use this site to find a guaranteed 85% ethanol pump.

[BRZ Fanboi]

Originally Posted by Wayno

1. By taking just the added timing and not the whole map, adding random timing is EXACTLY what you are doing.

2. I can guarantee that the added timing by itself in my timing map gives ABSOLUTELY ZERO more power. My map has timing adjustments for smoothing and timing adjustments due to leaner cruise fuel map. By taking the positive adjustments used for smoothing without the negative parts, you're potentially doing more bad than good.

3. Any improvement in power in my E85 roms are from tweaked maf scales and load limits, all fuel, not timing.

4. Knock has nothing to do with MBT on E85. It's been said many times in many threads both on this forum and many others, you can't magically make more power simply by adding timing without a dyno to measure output.

If you had initially asked for help and feedback on your unfortunately misguided ideas as an amateur (like the rest of us) instead of posting wild claims and pretending to be an expert when you're clearly not, you wouldn't have been met with hostility.

I've been working on adding more timing back in under cruise for the leaner map, but it won't be released until it's tested. Just because you don't get any knock driving around the block doesn't mean you won't get knock and drop IAM and power across the board under other conditions. For people who do have sensitive knock sensors the last thing they need is IAM drop at the track due to knock corrections under cruise on the way there.

I'm unsubscribing from this thread again. It doesn't add anything to the forum except noise. You should use the OTS fuel and timing maps together or my fuel and timing maps together. Don't mix and match. Just like if you use 91 or 93 use the OTS 91 and 93 base timing maps. It's that simple.

First of all thanks for all you do. You are an amazing asset to the forum and you do excellent work. Because of You, steve99, ztan, and Shiv we can all enjoy enhanced SAFE performance in our cars.
I have a few points I want to address:

I am using Shiv's timing map with slight changes. I am not using your fuel map but Shivs which corresponds to Shiv's timings. I have however added in some advanced timing which is featured in your tune. I modified Shiv's fuel map in certain areas to suit the advanced timings. I have not just added timing by itself. I know that some improvement in power in your E85 tunes are from tweaked maf scales and load limits. Thank you for those. I have used them in my tune and I must say you are right. Again I am not just adding random timing. I have added advanced timing featured in your well-tested tune and adjusted the fuel map to suit it. My tuning might be a little too aggressive for some, hence the disclaimer, but it is not the picture you paint of it. BTW Congrats on v86 of your tune. I look forward to checking it out.

[KoolBRZ]

Originally Posted by BRZ Fanboi

First of all thanks for all you do. You are an amazing asset to the forum and you do excellent work. Because of You, steve99, ztan, and Shiv we can all enjoy enhanced SAFE performance in our cars.
I have a few points I want to address:

I am using Shiv's timing map with slight changes. I am not using your fuel map but Shivs which corresponds to Shiv's timings. I have however added in some advanced timing which is featured in your tune. I modified Shiv's fuel map in certain areas to suit the advanced timings. I have not just added timing by itself. I know that some improvement in power in your E85 tunes are from tweaked maf scales and load limits. Thank you for those. I have used them in my tune and I must say you are right. Again I am not just adding random timing. I have added advanced timing featured in your well-tested tune and adjusted the fuel map to suit it. My tuning might be a little too aggressive for some, hence the disclaimer, but it is not the picture you paint of it. BTW Congrats on v86 of your tune. I look forward to checking it out.

@Wayno is right to have legitimate concerns about mixing and matching his improvements with your own and others. He has tested his improvements for safety and by mixing and matching, you could exceed the safety parameters he has made in his tunes. I speak from experience because I have done the exact same thing as you, only with 91 Octane tunes. To keep from getting your head bit off by @Wayno, I would recommend saying something like, "you thank him for helping you learn about tuning from reading what he has posted". Crediting him for certain parts of your tune is like saying he has helped and approves of your tune. More power can certainly be made by exceeding safety parameters, possibly leading to damage. Learning how to log, making small changes at a time, and logging the results of those changes are what it takes to safely tune right up to the limits of safety and horsepower. Remember also that @Wayno is trying to safely get the most MPG with E85 without leaning out, or causing damage, not make the most horsepower. While I'm trying to safely get the most mileage on 91 Octane while boosted with ESC and the Proceed controller.

[BRZ Fanboi]

To the people reading this thread I apologize that I have not given more exhaustive logs yet. My girlfriend stepped on my OFT a few days ago and this is the result.

I am currently in talks with the OFT to get it replaced. When I do I will be sure to update the OP.

[BRZ Fanboi]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

@Wayno is right to have legitimate concerns about mixing and matching his improvements with your own and others. He has tested his improvements for safety and by mixing and matching, you could exceed the safety parameters he has made in his tunes. I speak from experience because I have done the exact same thing as you, only with 91 Octane tunes. To keep from getting your head bit off by @Wayno, I would recommend saying something like, "you thank him for helping you learn about tuning from reading what he has posted". Crediting him for certain parts of your tune is like saying he has helped and approves of your tune. More power can certainly be made by exceeding safety parameters, possibly leading to damage. Learning how to log, making small changes at a time, and logging the results of those changes are what it takes to safely tune right up to the limits of safety and horsepower. Remember also that @Wayno is trying to safely get the most MPG with E85 without leaning out, or causing damage, not make the most horsepower. While I'm trying to safely get the most mileage on 91 Octane while boosted with ESC and the Proceed controller.

That's actually pretty impressive. Congrats on that MPG. Which version of the ESC do you have? I am on the wait list so I havent been able to get mine yet. As to crediting Wayno for certain parts of my tune, I have asked him in his thread if he wanted me to stop using his name in the credits of certain parts of the tune that came from him but I received no response. As a result of this I have left my OP as is. If Wayno expresses any issue with this I will be more than happy to remove his name from any and all credits. My tune is not designed for everyone which is why I have a disclaimer in my OP. My tune is designed to extract the maximum peformance I can in the guaranteed 85% E85 fuel in my area. It is clearly posted that the user accepts any and all risk associated with using the tune. It may be better for them or it may be much worse.

[KoolBRZ]

I have the 1.5 version with the dual-mode throttle switch. I actually tried it for 1 day with the throttle switch. I felt like it was just a toy with the throttle switch, while with the Proceed throttle control, I feel like it is V6 powered. My wife used to drive a Nissan 200sx v6se, and today with her at the wheel it felt just like it used to feel with her driving the 200sx. I haven't tried E85 yet, but when I do I'll probably start with @Wayno's tune and add changes from there. I drive up to a 100 miles a day, and mileage is important, even on E85. In particular, there is a Port injection compensation table for ambient atmospheric pressure which can be modded to provide more fuel in boosted situations, and yet normal fuel in unboosted situations. Perfect for ESC compensation.

[BRZ Fanboi]

Originally Posted by JB86'd

@Jaden The problem is, with grandiose claims, comes a burden of proof. This is especially true when you're using someone else's work that they spent countless time on, and claiming your untested version is better.

Silly me, and I thought the tunes were supposed to be open and free. My bad.

And I claimed it was better for MY CAR, in my environment. I don't believe that qualifies as necessary for burden of proof, but correct me if I'm wrong...

[BRZ Fanboi]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

I have the 1.5 version with the dual-mode throttle switch. I actually tried it for 1 day with the throttle switch. I felt like it was just a toy with the throttle switch, while with the Proceed throttle control, I feel like it is V6 powered. My wife used to drive a Nissan 200sx v6se, and today with her at the wheel it felt just like it used to feel with her driving the 200sx. I haven't tried E85 yet, but when I do I'll probably start with @Wayno's tune and add changes from there. I drive up to a 100 miles a day, and mileage is important, even on E85. In particular, there is a Port injection compensation table for ambient atmospheric pressure which can be modded to provide more fuel in boosted situations, and yet normal fuel in unboosted situations. Perfect for ESC compensation.

Thats awesome. Sounds like I need to get a Proceed then...

[KoolBRZ]

Depends on how you drive and what you drive. If you're driving an AT I recommend it, while if you're driving an MT it's not that important.