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Old 12-22-2021, 02:38 PM   #659
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I’ll have to look at mine and see if it think the ac is on or something and if that would cause it to idle higher. I don’t have ac so I can just disable all that.
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Old 12-22-2021, 02:47 PM   #660
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I’ll have to look at mine and see if it think the ac is on or something and if that would cause it to idle higher. I don’t have ac so I can just disable all that.

I changed my idle target RPM to 1050 at 140f, 1050 at 176 and 1000 at 212. This is nicer when sitting, but the decel still effects it when rolling to a stop with the clutch in. I'm going to play with it more this afternoon, but it looks like you can set Decel Min RPM as well which I'll try 1100 or so at 140f and 1050 176f. If it acts funky I'll tweak further.
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Old 12-22-2021, 09:02 PM   #661
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Thought I’d share where my fuel gauge was and how much gas it took today. Gauge was at about 5/8 and the car took 6.07 gallons. And I had driven 86 miles. So I’m still only getting barely 14mpg. I probably need to just work on the tune a bit at cruising rpm/load to get better mpg.
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Old 12-22-2021, 10:02 PM   #662
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Thought I’d share where my fuel gauge was and how much gas it took today. Gauge was at about 5/8 and the car took 6.07 gallons. And I had driven 86 miles. So I’m still only getting barely 14mpg. I probably need to just work on the tune a bit at cruising rpm/load to get better mpg.
My tank jumped from just a hair above half at 250 miles to empty with the fill light illuminated. I managed 23mpg this tank and it was 10.86 gallons to fill just after the light. So looks like around 11 gallons when the tank adjusts so dramatically for me.

I think the only difference possibly between our mileage is injectors and I may be running considerably more highway?

I deactivated decel on the Haltech and now my low RPM jerkyness is gone. Gotta figure out what settings I need to adjust but at least for now it’s better around town.
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Old 12-22-2021, 10:26 PM   #663
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Just so I understand the process:

Haltech/KP supplied a base map/maps, which consisted of a volumetric efficiency (VE) map and a target AFR map, right? I really haven't gotten into the software side too much. I am just trying to understand it. An AFR map should be based on rpms and MAP. The AFR map, as well as, the VE map are just conservative maps. A tuner would need to modify the AFR map and VE map based on the vehicle specifications. Maybe a turbocharged car will want to be a little richer than a NA car to avoid knock or something. Besides that, a tuner will modify ignition timing and cam timing to gain more power, right?

The short-term fuel trims adjust the fueling to hit the AFR targets, and the long-term fuel trims applies its corrections to the VE maps, which means the short-term fuel trims should make smaller and smaller adjustments, right? Basically with self-learning, the long-term trims are applied to the VE maps, right? If the AFR maps are conservative then self-learning will get the car closer to those values, but not necessarily optimize the car, or will it? Will self-learning modify the ignition timing or cams to optimize the power? No, right, because it doesn't know the power, but only AFR targets, right?

Sorry, I'm just trying to understand what self-learning does because I watched the Haltech video, and it didn't really answer my question.
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Old 12-22-2021, 10:41 PM   #664
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Also...

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Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast View Post
Another benefit here is that you can get a K24 w/ oil pump to rev out much further than the FA20. Using the same transmission, and rear end, this will mean you can achieve a higher speed in each gear. That will likely open up the ability to run a numerically higher FD for some.
Don't forget that transmissions don't care about hp, it's torque that jacks them up. With a high revving K24, you can safely get more power from the stock transmission by having peak power higher in the rev range while not having any higher torque...

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Old 12-22-2021, 10:52 PM   #665
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HUH???

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Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k View Post
Some people won't put up with inconvenience, and horrible mpg, of ethanol when looking for power. At least I won't. Not a chance, ever. haha. So a swap like this is quite meaningful/notable to me.



What's your "reliably" definition? To me it means track days without worrying if you're engine's gonna eat itself.
You do realize that even though it takes about 30% more fuel to run ethanol, it's typically almost 30% cheaper than premium????

Unless you're really that concerned about range, your opposition to getting free power makes no sense...

BTW, I made a flex fuel system for mine including the tune for less than $250...

Jaden
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Old 12-22-2021, 11:26 PM   #666
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@Jaden where are you even pulling these posts from that your quoting? Page 1?

Ok I went and looked. Page 10. Glad your reading the thread, but don’t see the point in quoting something from 38 pages and 10 months ago. Kinda like the guy that came in yesterday in the middle of our talk about how our gas gauges aren’t working correctly and he posted just to say our gauges aren’t working correctly.
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Old 12-22-2021, 11:34 PM   #667
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
Just so I understand the process:

Haltech/KP supplied a base map/maps, which consisted of a volumetric efficiency (VE) map and a target AFR map, right? I really haven't gotten into the software side too much. I am just trying to understand it. An AFR map should be based on rpms and MAP. The AFR map, as well as, the VE map are just conservative maps. A tuner would need to modify the AFR map and VE map based on the vehicle specifications. Maybe a turbocharged car will want to be a little richer than a NA car to avoid knock or something. Besides that, a tuner will modify ignition timing and cam timing to gain more power, right?

The short-term fuel trims adjust the fueling to hit the AFR targets, and the long-term fuel trims applies its corrections to the VE maps, which means the short-term fuel trims should make smaller and smaller adjustments, right? Basically with self-learning, the long-term trims are applied to the VE maps, right? If the AFR maps are conservative then self-learning will get the car closer to those values, but not necessarily optimize the car, or will it? Will self-learning modify the ignition timing or cams to optimize the power? No, right, because it doesn't know the power, but only AFR targets, right?

Sorry, I'm just trying to understand what self-learning does because I watched the Haltech video, and it didn't really answer my question.

I am only applying the learned long term values. There is an option that will add/decrease timing based on knock detection. I’d say the base map is pretty good, I don’t see a reason for me to ever get tuned. I will continue to tweak it myself, it drives good as is and i have no issues going to redline everyday.

The supplied map is based on a k24a2 with 50° vtc gear, kpower intake and header. Since they are only about 5 hours from me, around the same altitude and temperatures, the map works great for me.
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Old 12-22-2021, 11:43 PM   #668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captain awesome View Post
My tank jumped from just a hair above half at 250 miles to empty with the fill light illuminated. I managed 23mpg this tank and it was 10.86 gallons to fill just after the light. So looks like around 11 gallons when the tank adjusts so dramatically for me.

I think the only difference possibly between our mileage is injectors and I may be running considerably more highway?

I deactivated decel on the Haltech and now my low RPM jerkyness is gone. Gotta figure out what settings I need to adjust but at least for now it’s better around town.
Yeah I have 550cc DW injectors, otherwise it’s a stock k24a2 with 50° vtc. I took the stock kpower map, added my injector info, and then adjusted the fuel base map by adding 49 percent to the whole table since the injectors are 49 percent bigger, and it’s done minimal adjustments with the self learn. AFR stays perfectly on target at all times.

As for my drive, I’m pretty much never on the highway, and when I do get on the highway it’s only for 5 miles. My actual drive to work consists of 1.9 miles doing 35mph. But when I do actually drive the car away from town it’s usually to beat on it on back roads. I never got great mileage with the FA20 so it doesn’t surprise me that I’m getting horrible mileage now. Once it warms up I’ll start messing with the tune again and see if I can get better mpg.
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Old 12-23-2021, 12:42 AM   #669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebush View Post
I am only applying the learned long term values. There is an option that will add/decrease timing based on knock detection. I’d say the base map is pretty good, I don’t see a reason for me to ever get tuned. I will continue to tweak it myself, it drives good as is and i have no issues going to redline everyday.

The supplied map is based on a k24a2 with 50° vtc gear, kpower intake and header. Since they are only about 5 hours from me, around the same altitude and temperatures, the map works great for me.
Did they use a dyno for the base tune or just street tune the car? If they did then did they leave that tune or did they dial it back in a more conservative way? They state the car will need to be dyno/etuned from the base map. I have seen tunes from the same tuners using an etune and then a dyno tune, and there was a significant difference in power, so I think the base map will probably leave a lot on the table that would improve power and fuel efficiency. Just saying.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...&postcount=192



----------------------------------------------------------------

On a separate note: did you guys update the ESP to NSP? Is the base map in ESP and needs to be uploaded there before converting to NSP or will the NSP software read any tune or convert it, which means I can upgrade to NSP first?

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Old 12-23-2021, 01:36 AM   #670
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I haven't been on the site regularly for a while so I'm catching up...

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@Jaden where are you even pulling these posts from that your quoting? Page 1?

Ok I went and looked. Page 10. Glad your reading the thread, but don’t see the point in quoting something from 38 pages and 10 months ago. Kinda like the guy that came in yesterday in the middle of our talk about how our gas gauges aren’t working correctly and he posted just to say our gauges aren’t working correctly.
Just catching up... 10 months ago is nothing, I've quoted shit from 4 years ago before... BTW, it's you're...not your

Jaden

p.s. hey but you guys have come a long way from when I mentioned that Haltech was claiming that they had can for the 86 platform and no one believed it though...Oh and very shortly I'll have some fun stuff to post...
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Old 12-23-2021, 03:01 AM   #671
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Just catching up... 10 months ago is nothing, I've quoted shit from 4 years ago before... BTW, it's you're...not your

Jaden

p.s. hey but you guys have come a long way from when I mentioned that Haltech was claiming that they had can for the 86 platform and no one believed it though...Oh and very shortly I'll have some fun stuff to post...
Wow really dude. Thanks for the grammar lesson. I’m sure you can find some more mistakes I made.
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Old 12-23-2021, 03:07 AM   #672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
Did they use a dyno for the base tune or just street tune the car? If they did then did they leave that tune or did they dial it back in a more conservative way? They state the car will need to be dyno/etuned from the base map. I have seen tunes from the same tuners using an etune and then a dyno tune, and there was a significant difference in power, so I think the base map will probably leave a lot on the table that would improve power and fuel efficiency. Just saying.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...&postcount=192



----------------------------------------------------------------

On a separate note: did you guys update the ESP to NSP? Is the base map in ESP and needs to be uploaded there before converting to NSP or will the NSP software read any tune or convert it, which means I can upgrade to NSP first?

I’ve actually been meaning to ask David if this tune was just a straight copy of their car, or dialed back some to suit the majority of the US. From what I can tell they did dyno the first car, just not sure if timing has been dialed back on the included tune. I’m still on the ESP since that’s what I started the car up with and got familiar with, but I may convert over the NSP before it warms up and I start dialing in the tune for warmer weather.

I’m sure the tune can definitely be optimized for each car and make more power. Fuel and altitude can really effect the tune, and those two are different everywhere.
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