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11-20-2014, 01:43 AM | #1 |
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Thoughts on the new RS-R Sports-i CR coilovers
Disclaimer: I was recently provided a set of the new RS-R Sports-i CR coilovers: http://www.rs-r.com/product/scion-fr...oilovers-2013/ for evaluation.
I've been competing for the last year on the RCE Tarmac 2 coilovers (w 400lbs springs) with the Raceseng CASCAMs and 2 in shock tops, and R compound race tires in autocross. I run my car with about a 1 inch drop all around. A bit of back history: I struggled for the first half of the year trying to get my setup right. I had issues with too much drop, not enough compression travel in the front, and no droop travel in the rear. I believe this was caused mostly by a lack of experience in car setup, but was compounded by pairing parts together that weren't ideal for my setup. The RCE T2s are a nice coilover. 2 way adjustable, lifetime warranty, and KW quality. The Raceseng CASCAMs and shock tops are very nice parts. I love well made billet parts and these are so very nice. So, why did I have issues? 1) I was trying to run too much drop in the front, causing the piston to be too far into its stroke which IMO caused me to lose some of the damping force. I also didn't have very much bump travel and would often hit the bump stops. I think if you are going to run the T2s with a significant amount of drop you need camber plates that move the upper mounting point up. (i.e. HVT, RCE, Ground Control) so that you have enough compression stroke and don't ride the bump stops excessively. 2) I also have the Whiteline LCAs in the rear. I was running the lower coil mount at the outer most position. For the same ride height, this position increases the length between the lower coil mounting point and the chassis. I also had the 2 inch shock tops on the car. This lead me to be in a situation where I was topping the coil out on droop. I eventually went back to the factory upper mount in the rear and regained over an inch of droop travel on the rear shock with the same lower mounting position. What would I do differently? For my setup, I'd want a coilover that allows for ride height adjustment independent of the lower spring collar and piston position in its stroke. This would allow me to run the Raceseng parts and still be able to adjust my ride height without making compromises on damper performance. So, where am I now? The new RS-R Sports-i CR coilovers were just recently installed on my car. These include front camber plates and rear mounting plates with aircraft grade ball joints. The front plates are stated to allow for up to -3.5 degrees of negative camber. The front has 36 positions of adjustment, the rear has 24. I've done 1 autox competition event, a long drive from San Diego to San Francisco and back, and an Evolution Driving School on them. They come with 8K (~450lbs) springs, and are 1 adjustment knob that controls both rebound and compression. During the first week I drove the car with the damping set to its minimum value on street tires. The car was amazingly smooth for a race coilover on both the highway and surface streets. I also did one of my favorite canyon roads in this configuration and the car really felt planted to the road. During the second week I moved the damping to the middle position on the front and rear (18 clicks in front, 12 in rear). Even with the increased damping the car was fairly smooth on the road. I won't lie though, when I hit the bigger bumps, I knew it. I also did my first autox event with the dampers set like this, and the car felt great on the Hoosier A7s I'm running. So planted and easy to feel the tire/ground contact patch. For the third week I decided to back off the damping to 9 in front, 6 in rear. I drove from North San Diego County to San Francisco, did an Evolution driving school, and drove home on the 1 south through Big Sur with nearly an open road in this configuration (~1300 miles). Throughout the trip, the car felt awesome. Smooth and planted. The RS-R Sports-i CR coilovers are damped for someone who is using racing tires, the other Sports-i coilovers would probably be a better choice for those who want to improve the car's handling while still maintaining a smooth ride for daily driving. If you race your car, then you realize that there may be compromises needed for daily driving in order to achieve more performance while in competition. I'm still very early in my testing and evaluation of these new coilovers, but so far I have to say that I'm very impressed.
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11-20-2014, 02:15 AM | #2 |
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@whataboutbob
The ClubRacer package looks excellent and it sounds like you're killing it right now. I've been running Sports-i Moto Spec (now the standard Spec) 6KF/7KR for a few months now and can attest to the ride being outstanding for the sporting capability of the shock/spring combo. Also the build quality is really pretty darn good. I am on Max Performance Summer street tires as the car hasn't seen any track this year (Dunlop Dirreza DZ102)s. This will change in the upcoming spring. I feel the Sports-i could handle quite a bit more tire than what I'm running (something that won't be prone to chunking after getting some heat into it) just how much I don't know. I'm hoping RS3s, ZIIs or RE-11As but would like to know what you think. Also if you're running the OEM endlinks were there any clearance issues with your endlinks and the shock body? Thanks! |
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11-20-2014, 02:26 AM | #3 |
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RSR Sports-i CR, (Club Racer) package.
Well, to an extent, and a bit harsher for street than standard Sports-i but we've spent some months with race compounds to cater to those who regularly prioritize race tires on Sunday and live with them on weekdays when trophies are the priority.
Something we've been working on for the Sunday racers who just want a bit more priorities on the track and autocross, and less about the commuting comfort or slight harshness on public roads. These RSR Sports-i CR (Club Racer) are the just the right touch to opt for. Still very compliant on the street, considering motorsports use, the valving at compression and rebound on all four ends, have been re-calibrated for track compound tires, and spring rates increased for track tire use at 8kg/mm front and rear. The unit features aircraft grade ball joints at the top with 3.5 degree camber adjustability for precision, giving up a bit on compromise, noise suppression and harshness. For those who just occasionally track or casually do so with street tires, the standard Sports-i is still the better match and this new CR version is only for those who just want that extra precision and operate more on track specification tires. The more choice the more fun, and since there is no one perfect setup for anyone, RSR offers three distinct choices, the Black-i for showcasing extreme drop and retaining comfort as a show-street car, and Sports-i for those who enjoy the car and want to add to the handling where the factory left off in style and precision, and extended comfort that only an expensive mono-tube setup can offer. And finally, for those who are serious about chasing the clock and can settle with a more challenging and tricky setup to go faster...the CR is the new addition.
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11-20-2014, 02:31 AM | #4 | |
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11-20-2014, 02:34 AM | #5 | |
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With the Original Sports-i, stock end-links are used since there isn't much clearance issues with them with most all wheels generally applied on street cars of 17" and 18" sizes with varying widths and offsets up to 10" wide. For the Sports-i CR (Club Racer), we opted for a shorter lower case on front strut assembly and we do supply a shortened end links as well, because the attachment point is shallower on the new case. This is to provide a wider range of adjustment toward lower shock body placements, and because the CR uses higher rate shocks/springs we can experiment with lower ride height as well, if we are using future custom hubs and arms to allow for better geometry on race bred fabrications. Also this is because some motorsports also opt for use of 16" wheels for things like non-tarmac rallies, and clearance can get extremely tight. But again, this is done for a lot of future variables that are not usually seen or applied to street-tuner level cars, or Sunday races often, and standard Sports-i package is still the best tune for the part-time racers who are more casual, and care about lower maintenance, longevity of the chassis/frame, and expect the car to be a great road car for the normal roads.
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11-20-2014, 02:57 AM | #6 | |
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Again, the CR is re-calibrated to be quicker, sharper, and for much higher average grip level operation (with R compound priority), and as such it does tend to require a bit more skills of the driver to provide a more sharper and more accurate input as well as get feedback from more subtle motions quickly. That's the nature of going faster with CR, for those with skills, but such suspension isn't always quicker for other people, or those with street tires.
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11-20-2014, 10:34 AM | #7 |
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11-21-2014, 05:07 AM | #8 |
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Man I everything I hear about RS*R have been all positive!
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11-21-2014, 04:25 PM | #9 |
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Got a chance to ride in Bob's car when he first got the coils in. My first thought was how it soaked up some of the road conditions on the local roads. Bob's setup is autocross focused and I believe the system was definitely a tailored fit for his application. Granted the conditions were a little damp on heat cycled R-comp tires, I felt the setup worked exactly for its intended purpose. We definitely approve this setup to people looking for a safe, simple setup with good damping qualities.
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11-21-2014, 04:46 PM | #10 |
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Funny; I found this to be the ideal setting too. I have it set to this for both street and track.
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11-21-2014, 06:54 PM | #11 |
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11-25-2014, 05:38 PM | #12 |
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@whataboutbob, would you happen to know if they support the normal spring offerings from Swift for the option of having stiffer spring rates than what they offer? And if they will work with the normal top hat/camber plate offerings from Vorshlag, Raceseng, etc.? I've reached out to them via email, but haven't gotten any response.
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11-25-2014, 05:43 PM | #13 | |
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11-25-2014, 05:46 PM | #14 | |
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Upper and lower brackets and mounts too, can be made to fit things made by RSR as well. However, all of that, basically modifications from what is sold, is at your own risk, as RSR will not warranty, advise, or help with any R&D using any 3rd party parts on the system for obvious reasons. But if that's obvious to you as a race engineer, and you're keen to experiment, we encourage you to use it in different ways, and find your liking through testing, trials, mistakes, and successes. It is what "making the car your own" is all about.
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