follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Delicious Tuning
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing

Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing Relating to suspension, chassis, and brakes. Sponsored by 949 Racing.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-20-2014, 01:43 AM   #1
whataboutbob
AutoX-10/10ths every run
 
whataboutbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: 2013 Scion FR-S AT Firestorm
Location: San Marcos, CA, USA
Posts: 2,545
Thanks: 4,684
Thanked 1,831 Times in 996 Posts
Mentioned: 79 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Thoughts on the new RS-R Sports-i CR coilovers

Disclaimer: I was recently provided a set of the new RS-R Sports-i CR coilovers: http://www.rs-r.com/product/scion-fr...oilovers-2013/ for evaluation.

I've been competing for the last year on the RCE Tarmac 2 coilovers (w 400lbs springs) with the Raceseng CASCAMs and 2 in shock tops, and R compound race tires in autocross. I run my car with about a 1 inch drop all around.

A bit of back history:

I struggled for the first half of the year trying to get my setup right. I had issues with too much drop, not enough compression travel in the front, and no droop travel in the rear. I believe this was caused mostly by a lack of experience in car setup, but was compounded by pairing parts together that weren't ideal for my setup.

The RCE T2s are a nice coilover. 2 way adjustable, lifetime warranty, and KW quality. The Raceseng CASCAMs and shock tops are very nice parts. I love well made billet parts and these are so very nice.

So, why did I have issues?

1) I was trying to run too much drop in the front, causing the piston to be too far into its stroke which IMO caused me to lose some of the damping force. I also didn't have very much bump travel and would often hit the bump stops. I think if you are going to run the T2s with a significant amount of drop you need camber plates that move the upper mounting point up. (i.e. HVT, RCE, Ground Control) so that you have enough compression stroke and don't ride the bump stops excessively.

2) I also have the Whiteline LCAs in the rear. I was running the lower coil mount at the outer most position. For the same ride height, this position increases the length between the lower coil mounting point and the chassis. I also had the 2 inch shock tops on the car. This lead me to be in a situation where I was topping the coil out on droop. I eventually went back to the factory upper mount in the rear and regained over an inch of droop travel on the rear shock with the same lower mounting position.

What would I do differently?

For my setup, I'd want a coilover that allows for ride height adjustment independent of the lower spring collar and piston position in its stroke. This would allow me to run the Raceseng parts and still be able to adjust my ride height without making compromises on damper performance.

So, where am I now?

The new RS-R Sports-i CR coilovers were just recently installed on my car. These include front camber plates and rear mounting plates with aircraft grade ball joints. The front plates are stated to allow for up to -3.5 degrees of negative camber. The front has 36 positions of adjustment, the rear has 24. I've done 1 autox competition event, a long drive from San Diego to San Francisco and back, and an Evolution Driving School on them. They come with 8K (~450lbs) springs, and are 1 adjustment knob that controls both rebound and compression.

During the first week I drove the car with the damping set to its minimum value on street tires. The car was amazingly smooth for a race coilover on both the highway and surface streets. I also did one of my favorite canyon roads in this configuration and the car really felt planted to the road.

During the second week I moved the damping to the middle position on the front and rear (18 clicks in front, 12 in rear). Even with the increased damping the car was fairly smooth on the road. I won't lie though, when I hit the bigger bumps, I knew it. I also did my first autox event with the dampers set like this, and the car felt great on the Hoosier A7s I'm running. So planted and easy to feel the tire/ground contact patch.

For the third week I decided to back off the damping to 9 in front, 6 in rear. I drove from North San Diego County to San Francisco, did an Evolution driving school, and drove home on the 1 south through Big Sur with nearly an open road in this configuration (~1300 miles). Throughout the trip, the car felt awesome. Smooth and planted.

The RS-R Sports-i CR coilovers are damped for someone who is using racing tires, the other Sports-i coilovers would probably be a better choice for those who want to improve the car's handling while still maintaining a smooth ride for daily driving. If you race your car, then you realize that there may be compromises needed for daily driving in order to achieve more performance while in competition.

I'm still very early in my testing and evaluation of these new coilovers, but so far I have to say that I'm very impressed.
__________________

[ Delicioustuning | Counterspacegarage | RS-R USA | Cusco USA | SPL Parts | ACE Header | Stark Performance | Infinite Motion | Ciro Racing | Build thread:Here ]
[ GR Corolla Core in White w/LSDs on wish list ]

Last edited by whataboutbob; 11-20-2014 at 02:43 AM.
whataboutbob is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to whataboutbob For This Useful Post:
10Stars (11-21-2014), 8R6 (11-20-2014), BatStig (11-20-2014), CSG Mike (11-20-2014), DAEMANO (11-20-2014), Firestorm_86 (11-26-2014), JonAvalon (11-20-2014), jprice130 (11-23-2014), Moto-P (11-20-2014), rb6freak (11-21-2014), superpenguin (05-27-2015), The Racers Line (11-20-2014)
Old 11-20-2014, 02:15 AM   #2
DAEMANO
Time Traveller
 
Join Date: May 2013
Drives: 2013 Scion FRS - Raven
Location: So Cal - Orange County
Posts: 3,705
Thanks: 9,529
Thanked 3,416 Times in 1,677 Posts
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Garage
@whataboutbob

The ClubRacer package looks excellent and it sounds like you're killing it right now.

I've been running Sports-i Moto Spec (now the standard Spec) 6KF/7KR for a few months now and can attest to the ride being outstanding for the sporting capability of the shock/spring combo. Also the build quality is really pretty darn good. I am on Max Performance Summer street tires as the car hasn't seen any track this year (Dunlop Dirreza DZ102)s. This will change in the upcoming spring. I feel the Sports-i could handle quite a bit more tire than what I'm running (something that won't be prone to chunking after getting some heat into it) just how much I don't know. I'm hoping RS3s, ZIIs or RE-11As but would like to know what you think.

Also if you're running the OEM endlinks were there any clearance issues with your endlinks and the shock body?

Thanks!
DAEMANO is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to DAEMANO For This Useful Post:
Moto-P (11-20-2014)
Old 11-20-2014, 02:26 AM   #3
Moto-P
Senior Member
 
Moto-P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Drives: Many types of cars in R&D.
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 902
Thanks: 585
Thanked 3,057 Times in 568 Posts
Mentioned: 101 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Garage
RSR Sports-i CR, (Club Racer) package.

Well, to an extent, and a bit harsher for street than standard Sports-i but we've spent some months with race compounds to cater to those who regularly prioritize race tires on Sunday and live with them on weekdays when trophies are the priority.

Something we've been working on for the Sunday racers who just want a bit more priorities on the track and autocross, and less about the commuting comfort or slight harshness on public roads.

These RSR Sports-i CR (Club Racer) are the just the right touch to opt for.
Still very compliant on the street, considering motorsports use, the valving at compression and rebound on all four ends, have been re-calibrated for track compound tires, and spring rates increased for track tire use at 8kg/mm front and rear.

The unit features aircraft grade ball joints at the top with 3.5 degree camber adjustability for precision, giving up a bit on compromise, noise suppression and harshness.

For those who just occasionally track or casually do so with street tires, the standard Sports-i is still the better match and this new CR version is only for those who just want that extra precision and operate more on track specification tires.

The more choice the more fun, and since there is no one perfect setup for anyone, RSR offers three distinct choices, the Black-i for showcasing extreme drop and retaining comfort as a show-street car, and Sports-i for those who enjoy the car and want to add to the handling where the factory left off in style and precision, and extended comfort that only an expensive mono-tube setup can offer. And finally, for those who are serious about chasing the clock and can settle with a more challenging and tricky setup to go faster...the CR is the new addition.
__________________
Moto Miwa
www.club4ag.com
R&D Driving Engineer, Product Planning Consultant
Consulting Member at Cusco, OEM+, RS-R.
www.club4ag.com
Moto-P is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Moto-P For This Useful Post:
DAEMANO (11-20-2014), whataboutbob (11-20-2014)
Old 11-20-2014, 02:31 AM   #4
whataboutbob
AutoX-10/10ths every run
 
whataboutbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: 2013 Scion FR-S AT Firestorm
Location: San Marcos, CA, USA
Posts: 2,545
Thanks: 4,684
Thanked 1,831 Times in 996 Posts
Mentioned: 79 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAEMANO View Post
@whataboutbob

The ClubRacer package looks excellent and it sounds like you're killing it right now.

I've been running Sports-i Moto Spec (now the standard Spec) 6KF/7KR for a few months now and can attest to the ride being outstanding for the sporting capability of the shock/spring combo. Also the build quality is really pretty darn good. I am on Max Performance Summer street tires as the car hasn't seen any track this year (Dunlop Dirreza DZ102)s. This will change in the upcoming spring. I feel the Sports-i could handle quite a bit more tire than what I'm running (something that won't be prone to chunking after getting some heat into it) just how much I don't know. I'm hoping RS3s, ZIIs or RE-11As but would like to know what you think.

Also if you're running the OEM endlinks were there any clearance issues with your endlinks and the shock body?

Thanks!
I ran the RS-R endlinks in the front for the first week and had no issues. I've since gone back to my Whiteline adjustable ones and they are working fine. I did trim 10mm off the body of the Whiteline endlinks as they were contacting my front LCAs even with the RCE coilovers. Others have also had contact issues with the Whiteline front endlinks on other configurations.
__________________

[ Delicioustuning | Counterspacegarage | RS-R USA | Cusco USA | SPL Parts | ACE Header | Stark Performance | Infinite Motion | Ciro Racing | Build thread:Here ]
[ GR Corolla Core in White w/LSDs on wish list ]
whataboutbob is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to whataboutbob For This Useful Post:
DAEMANO (11-20-2014), Moto-P (11-20-2014)
Old 11-20-2014, 02:34 AM   #5
Moto-P
Senior Member
 
Moto-P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Drives: Many types of cars in R&D.
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 902
Thanks: 585
Thanked 3,057 Times in 568 Posts
Mentioned: 101 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAEMANO View Post
@whataboutbob

The ClubRacer package looks excellent and it sounds like you're killing it right now.

I've been running Sports-i Moto Spec (now the standard Spec) 6KF/7KR for a few months now and can attest to the ride being outstanding for the sporting capability of the shock/spring combo. Also the build quality is really pretty darn good. I am on Max Performance Summer street tires as the car hasn't seen any track this year (Dunlop Dirreza DZ102)s. This will change in the upcoming spring. I feel the Sports-i could handle quite a bit more tire than what I'm running (something that won't be prone to chunking after getting some heat into it) just how much I don't know. I'm hoping RS3s, ZIIs or RE-11As but would like to know what you think.

Also if you're running the OEM endlinks were there any clearance issues with your endlinks and the shock body?

Thanks!

With the Original Sports-i, stock end-links are used since there isn't much clearance issues with them with most all wheels generally applied on street cars of 17" and 18" sizes with varying widths and offsets up to 10" wide.

For the Sports-i CR (Club Racer), we opted for a shorter lower case on front strut assembly and we do supply a shortened end links as well, because the attachment point is shallower on the new case. This is to provide a wider range of adjustment toward lower shock body placements, and because the CR uses higher rate shocks/springs we can experiment with lower ride height as well, if we are using future custom hubs and arms to allow for better geometry on race bred fabrications. Also this is because some motorsports also opt for use of 16" wheels for things like non-tarmac rallies, and clearance can get extremely tight.

But again, this is done for a lot of future variables that are not usually seen or applied to street-tuner level cars, or Sunday races often, and standard Sports-i package is still the best tune for the part-time racers who are more casual, and care about lower maintenance, longevity of the chassis/frame, and expect the car to be a great road car for the normal roads.
__________________
Moto Miwa
www.club4ag.com
R&D Driving Engineer, Product Planning Consultant
Consulting Member at Cusco, OEM+, RS-R.
www.club4ag.com
Moto-P is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Moto-P For This Useful Post:
DAEMANO (11-20-2014), MINOCIN (11-23-2014)
Old 11-20-2014, 02:57 AM   #6
Moto-P
Senior Member
 
Moto-P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Drives: Many types of cars in R&D.
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 902
Thanks: 585
Thanked 3,057 Times in 568 Posts
Mentioned: 101 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAEMANO View Post
@whataboutbob

.....
I feel the Sports-i could handle quite a bit more tire than what I'm running (something that won't be prone to chunking after getting some heat into it) just how much I don't know. I'm hoping RS3s, ZIIs or RE-11As but would like to know what you think.
Yes, indeed the Standard Sports-i will be able to handle race tires as well, and damping forces can be raised on the original "Moto Spec" to accommodate a very tactile handling with it too. For learning and handling pleasure of track days, and autocross, drift-practice this original set is fine and is the easier setup to learn too. The transitional maneuvers are easier felt and control will be more predictable and gentler as well, compared to the new CR.

Again, the CR is re-calibrated to be quicker, sharper, and for much higher average grip level operation (with R compound priority), and as such it does tend to require a bit more skills of the driver to provide a more sharper and more accurate input as well as get feedback from more subtle motions quickly. That's the nature of going faster with CR, for those with skills, but such suspension isn't always quicker for other people, or those with street tires.
__________________
Moto Miwa
www.club4ag.com
R&D Driving Engineer, Product Planning Consultant
Consulting Member at Cusco, OEM+, RS-R.
www.club4ag.com
Moto-P is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Moto-P For This Useful Post:
BatStig (11-26-2014), DAEMANO (11-20-2014)
Old 11-20-2014, 10:34 AM   #7
DAEMANO
Time Traveller
 
Join Date: May 2013
Drives: 2013 Scion FRS - Raven
Location: So Cal - Orange County
Posts: 3,705
Thanks: 9,529
Thanked 3,416 Times in 1,677 Posts
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Garage
@whataboutbob and @Moto-P

Tons of useful help here thanks very much!
DAEMANO is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to DAEMANO For This Useful Post:
whataboutbob (11-20-2014)
Old 11-21-2014, 05:07 AM   #8
10Stars
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Drives: 14 Subaru BRZ Limited WRB
Location: Bionis
Posts: 133
Thanks: 273
Thanked 54 Times in 40 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Man I everything I hear about RS*R have been all positive!

Awesome.
10Stars is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to 10Stars For This Useful Post:
whataboutbob (11-21-2014)
Old 11-21-2014, 04:25 PM   #9
CSG David
 
CSG David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Drives: S2000 CR
Location: California
Posts: 2,109
Thanks: 537
Thanked 1,721 Times in 956 Posts
Mentioned: 173 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Got a chance to ride in Bob's car when he first got the coils in. My first thought was how it soaked up some of the road conditions on the local roads. Bob's setup is autocross focused and I believe the system was definitely a tailored fit for his application. Granted the conditions were a little damp on heat cycled R-comp tires, I felt the setup worked exactly for its intended purpose. We definitely approve this setup to people looking for a safe, simple setup with good damping qualities.
CSG David is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to CSG David For This Useful Post:
BatStig (11-26-2014), DAEMANO (11-21-2014), rb6freak (11-21-2014), ultra (12-03-2014), whataboutbob (11-21-2014), wparsons (01-30-2015)
Old 11-21-2014, 04:46 PM   #10
rb6freak
Senior Member
 
rb6freak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Drives: 23 BRZ
Location: CA
Posts: 539
Thanks: 545
Thanked 686 Times in 299 Posts
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by whataboutbob View Post

For the third week I decided to back off the damping to 9 in front, 6 in rear.
Funny; I found this to be the ideal setting too. I have it set to this for both street and track.
__________________
rb6freak is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to rb6freak For This Useful Post:
CSG Mike (11-21-2014), whataboutbob (11-21-2014)
Old 11-21-2014, 06:54 PM   #11
CSG Mike
 
CSG Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: S2000 CR
Location: Orange County
Posts: 14,522
Thanks: 8,911
Thanked 14,166 Times in 6,828 Posts
Mentioned: 966 Post(s)
Tagged: 14 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rb6freak View Post
Funny; I found this to be the ideal setting too. I have it set to this for both street and track.
You've discovered critical damping

"softer" is not a better ride!
CSG Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to CSG Mike For This Useful Post:
DAEMANO (11-21-2014), rb6freak (11-21-2014), Strife26 (08-13-2019), whataboutbob (11-21-2014), wparsons (01-30-2015)
Old 11-25-2014, 05:38 PM   #12
Churg
Senior Member
 
Churg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Drives: 2014 WRB BRZ
Location: SoCal
Posts: 124
Thanks: 67
Thanked 36 Times in 25 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
@whataboutbob, would you happen to know if they support the normal spring offerings from Swift for the option of having stiffer spring rates than what they offer? And if they will work with the normal top hat/camber plate offerings from Vorshlag, Raceseng, etc.? I've reached out to them via email, but haven't gotten any response.
Churg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2014, 05:43 PM   #13
whataboutbob
AutoX-10/10ths every run
 
whataboutbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: 2013 Scion FR-S AT Firestorm
Location: San Marcos, CA, USA
Posts: 2,545
Thanks: 4,684
Thanked 1,831 Times in 996 Posts
Mentioned: 79 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Churg View Post
@whataboutbob, would you happen to know if they support the normal spring offerings from Swift for the option of having stiffer spring rates than what they offer? And if they will work with the normal top hat/camber plate offerings from Vorshlag, Raceseng, etc.? I've reached out to them via email, but haven't gotten any response.
I'm running mine as they came right now, let me look into it and I'll get back to you.
__________________

[ Delicioustuning | Counterspacegarage | RS-R USA | Cusco USA | SPL Parts | ACE Header | Stark Performance | Infinite Motion | Ciro Racing | Build thread:Here ]
[ GR Corolla Core in White w/LSDs on wish list ]
whataboutbob is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to whataboutbob For This Useful Post:
Churg (11-25-2014)
Old 11-25-2014, 05:46 PM   #14
Moto-P
Senior Member
 
Moto-P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Drives: Many types of cars in R&D.
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 902
Thanks: 585
Thanked 3,057 Times in 568 Posts
Mentioned: 101 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Churg View Post
@whataboutbob, would you happen to know if they support the normal spring offerings from Swift for the option of having stiffer spring rates than what they offer? And if they will work with the normal top hat/camber plate offerings from Vorshlag, Raceseng, etc.? I've reached out to them via email, but haven't gotten any response.
Bob, Churg, I just got invited to reply to this question. As for the RSR Sports-i/Black-i coil-over system, as long as the coil ID/OD and lengths are the same as the supplied TI2000 Series RSR coils, they will function and mount fine. RSR does have different rate springs which can be purchased from them as well.
Upper and lower brackets and mounts too, can be made to fit things made by RSR as well.

However, all of that, basically modifications from what is sold, is at your own risk, as RSR will not warranty, advise, or help with any R&D using any 3rd party parts on the system for obvious reasons. But if that's obvious to you as a race engineer, and you're keen to experiment, we encourage you to use it in different ways, and find your liking through testing, trials, mistakes, and successes. It is what "making the car your own" is all about.
__________________
Moto Miwa
www.club4ag.com
R&D Driving Engineer, Product Planning Consultant
Consulting Member at Cusco, OEM+, RS-R.
www.club4ag.com
Moto-P is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Moto-P For This Useful Post:
Churg (11-25-2014), CSG Mike (11-25-2014), Strife26 (08-13-2019)
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thoughts on Raceland Coilovers? Brody602 Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing 28 12-31-2015 02:04 PM
DC Sports Header thoughts/feedback 1086 Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 25 10-24-2015 01:52 AM
RS-R* Sports i Coilovers installed!!! eddieEndo Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing 2 12-10-2014 12:25 AM
megan racing coilovers thoughts? Ludacrits Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing 1 03-10-2014 01:12 PM
Your thoughts on Paddle Shifter sports cars? SevenTenSplit Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions 71 12-23-2011 05:12 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.