Stealership Stories...

[Stephen W.]

If you find this too long just skip to the bottom to read the summary.


Wife decided she’d like a new Hyundai Santa Cruz. She went to the local dealer to check ‘em out. They had one but it was sold. The salesperson said no problem and gave the wife the 50 cent tour. Then Bogus Sales Tactic #1 kicked in. The salesperson offered to let the wife take a test drive in this “sold” unit. Salesperson explained that its dealer policy that they do not deliver a new vehicle until the next one of that model is on the lot. Yep, that means if the wife put a deposit on the one that was coming in she would not be allowed to take it home until the one after hers shows up. In the meantime people would be able to flog her yet to be delivered new vehicle. Thanks but no thanks.
I check the web and find another dealer with four in stock. One is the model she wants in a colour she likes. I phone and talk to a salesperson. Here’s Bogus Sales Tactic #2. It’s already got a pile of dealer installed options. I asked the salesman for the price minus the options that could be removed. He said that they would not do that. The dealer adds useful options to all the stock. So, the price is the price with all the options listed.
Saturday morning we drive off to visit three dealers that all had SC’s in stock. We had to wait at the first dealership for their sales staff to finish their morning sales meeting. Lucky us, we get the first guy out the door who’s a complete rookie. Bogus Sales Tactic #3, none of the vehicles at this (or the next lot) has window stickers. No way to know which trim level or option package or even MSRP if you didn’t know the model line. Not even a full price; zip, zero, nada, nothing! We do the walk arounds of the two models they have. We ask questions, most he answers. However, several key ones we had to wait until we were back inside. (Where he can run to his sale manager.) We want to know the Out the Door Price. After much arguing the figure he gives doesn’t make sense. Bogus Sales Tactic #4, Its dealership policy to add options and service packages like rust proofing, paint protection, wheel locks, tire and rim insurance etc. (at a huge markup) NO exceptions! Every vehicle they sell gets them. Now, my wife has been in the business going on 4 decades. She knows how much a chem pack cost the dealer and how long the techs actually take versus what the dealer says it takes. We had a long debate over these as to our knowledge the work was not done yet to either vehicle. The salesperson insisted that we had to take all this stuff. It was not negotiable! We get up to leave and get hit with Bogus Sales Tactic #5. The salesperson explains about how Covid hit the dealership hard and the owners kept the doors open. They paid their staff so they didn’t lose anyone. Now it was the costumers turn to repay them by paying for stuff that they (we) didn’t want. Next was the dreaded trade-in value. We expected to get lowballed but Geezzus! They wanted us to pay way more then we should for stuff we didn’t want and basically give them another $6 to $8 grand of profit in our trade. Bogus Sales Tactic #6; they use an on-line instant auction site to get “real bids”. Funny how these are thousands of $ below Black Book. Bogus Sales Tactic #7; the biggest confusion came when the salesperson kept adding 13% HST to our trade so it looked like we were getting more $. It’s called the Sales Tax Advantage. In Ontario (like most places I’m sure) we only pay HST on the difference. Add up all the taxable items starting with the MSRP and then subtract the trade-in. What’s left gets hit with 13% HST. What’s so hard about that? Well, he would keep changing things like the new vehicle price. Seems he’d forget this item or that fee. Mostly it’s a shell game with the numbers. Oh, speaking of fees here’s Bogus Sales Tactic #8; this dealerhas a policy that if you finance through them they wave the admin fees. However, if it’s a cash deal they hit you for $699.
So onto the next stealership. We get a good feeling in this store. Friendly, courteous staff with one young lad who has a STi. But it turns into the same “I’ll have to take this to my manager. I doubt he’ll go for it” sham. Same or very similar Bogus Sales Tactics with a couple of new ones. Bogus Sales Tactic #9 & #10; this salesperson referred to Hyundai as an “economy brand.” Meaning, very little mark up. The only way the dealership makes money is by adding on things. This person also tried to shame us by saying that we “HAD” to take all the options etc. because we were from out of town and the dealership would be losing after sales service profits. Bogus Sales Tactic #11; this person outright lied. He said that Black Book values are from retail sales not wholesale. We argued with him over this. Once we got him to understand we knew Blue Book was retail and the industry standard for wholesale is Black Book he stated that, like others, this dealer only uses the on-line auctions method. That made the differences in trade-in value and new vehicle price with all the extras even greater than the last store. We left so upset that we didn’t even go to the third store where I had made an actual appointment.
It’s been a week and there has been no follow up from either salespeople or dealer staff. My wife’s dealership at the very least does a phone call or email questionnaire to gauge the customer’s experience.
This was our experience with four Hyundai dealerships. However, I suspect this is industry wide and maybe even driven by management well above the dealer level. Even OMVIC may be turning a blind eye to this type of behavior. This doesn’t happen in a vacuum!

Summary:
Stealership Bogus Sales Tactics in the order we encountered them.


#1 Purchaser cannot take delivery of new vehicle until the next one of that model arrives.


#2 Purchasers must accept all dealer installed options at the price shown.


#3 No factory window sticker showing make, model, year, base configuration or model specific extras.


#4 Purchasers must accept all dealer product and service packages as listed.


#5 Purchaser made to feel responsible to pay back dealer for costs incurred due to things like the pandemic.


#6 Dealers using what appears to be a “rigged” on-line auction system to obtain trade-in values instead of the industry standard Black Book method.


#7 Sales staff play a shell game with the numbers. Things like insisting on adding 13% for HST to the trade-in allowance on the work sheet but showing the actual trade value on the offer sheet.


#8 Dealer adds admin fees if you pay cash but waves the fees if financed through them.


#9 Hyundai is an economy brand with little profit. Therefore it’s acceptable to force purchasers to pay for extras they neither want nor need.


#10 Purchasers who live out of the sales district should have to pay more because of lost after sales service profits.


#11 Sales staffs make vague, misleading or outright false claims/statements.

[Clipdat]

Absolutely insane. Makes you wonder how they even stay in business.

The new car buying process needs a complete overhaul, because consumers shouldn't have to deal with these sleazy outdated sales tactics. It's asinine.

[Dadhawk]

I wouldn't have gotten past 2 and 3 to get to the rest. I don't need any vehicle that bad.

[Teseo]

I have heard Ford want to get rid off dealerships for same reasson.... non wonder why Chevrolet had low sales with their Camaro and discontinued afterwards. Different brands, same tactics

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Teseo

I have heard Ford want to get rid off dealerships for same reasson....

Not really get rid of them, but allow on-line direct ordering of EVs that would still be delivered through dealerships more like a service and delivery center.

[weederr33]

Oh boy do I have as story to tell!
So I'm back in the market for another vehicle, alas something more responsible. So I was shopping around for a Corolla Hatchback and a Crosstrek 2.5. Found multiple but wanted to prioritize the hatchback as I really want to keep rocking the manual as long as possible.

The first one I found was within my budget and I was ready to jump on it, but needed to fly out to it as there were no options within a reasonable driving distance. Contacted the dealership and explained I wasn't local but was willing to fly out and buy it as they were pretty up front about the costs. Salesman asks when I'll be in, and due to my job I can't just up and leave and need to request time off within a certain time frame. Told them Saturday (this was Monday of said week). If the car sold, it sold and I accepted that. Dude said they could accommodate that and I asked if I could put a deposit down to secure it. They said no. I found that odd, but whatever. Literally the next day, the guy asked if I could move my flight up to Wednesday. I felt maybe he said this as someone was wanting to purchase the car. Nope, just trying to pressure me. He told me let him know the day before so they could then do a 24hr hold as that was 'authorized.' I do that. The evening before my flight, the guy messages me saying the car sold. That was a wash.


The second one was the worst. Found another hatch, this time an XSE fully loaded. But they wanted $28,200 for a car with 20k miles. That's more than a brand new one, but figured I could wiggle the price down. Reached out and we chatted. The car had an aftermarket exhaust and some weeaboo stickers on it. The sales guy said the exhaust was stock and I told him it wasn't and then insinuated the car had been modified. They tried to deny that. I ignored that as I could profit off selling the exhaust. We get to talking the numbers and such and I know my credit score is pretty damn good. He gets back to me nearly 4 hours later and sends me 'the numbers'. They didn't drop the price at all, tacked on some bullshit called "guidepoint" for a grand. Totaled out to $31,600. For a used Corolla. With 20k miles. I ask why it's so expensive and that that is way too much for the car. I even point out it's more than a brand new one. The dude claims because it's manual it's rare and more valuable. And that the guidepoint shit could not be removed as it's a dealership requirement. He does the whole, 'speak with a manager' and 'crunch the numbers' ploy as per usual. Get's back to me far quicker, takes $1k off (but not the thing I asked) and then claims it's a rare car and worth more and the best they could do was $30,600 with monthly payments of $598. Wut. I ask why the payments are so high and what the interest rates are to even be that price. They say they can't and that it's finance's issues. He even made the **** remark that I could just put a bigger deposit down to drop the monthly prices.

At this point they won't budge and offered to "drop the price" by offering a loan payment of 84 months! The total cost didn't even change. I point out Toyota discontinued the manual due to lack of popularity and that it having one shouldn't factor into it's value. I then point out if they won't even remove a charge that's irrelevant to the car, I won't buy. Finally the 'manager' calls and says they can give me a good deal. I tell them no and that flying out would be a waste of my time and money and that the car is a horrible value. I finally end it with pointing out I could buy a Civic SI or GTI that's actually sporty for the same price.

Yesterday, I saw the car still listed but now at $26k. I'm half tempted to reach out just to fuck with them. I'm honestly surprised they didn't use COVID or chip shortages as an excuse.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by weederr33

Dude said they could accommodate that and I asked if I could put a deposit down to secure it. They said no. I found that odd, but whatever.

I don't find that very odd. He may have been getting other inquiries on it and wanted to give you a chance to secure it before someone else sat down to try to make a deal. Also may have been a sales tactic but you never know for sure.


I had one years ago when I bought my truck. They wouldn't budge on price, they had other people coming to look at it. They had it such a short amount of time when I went to see it they hadn't even washed it yet. Tires were bald, deal was made and they were going to replace the tires when they came in a few more weeks. Wrote me a slip for it and I took the truck home. Months go buy and nothing, keep bugging them. They keep saying any day. I needed to tow with the truck, whole reason I bought it, so I told them I would pay the difference for a different tire or accept something equal or lessor. They say no. I go buy tires and figure when I get the others, i'll just take them home and sell them to recoup. Then I get a call later asking about my buy experience and I let them know. Another month later they wrote me a check for what I bought on my own.

[Sapphireho]

I've never had problems at a dealership. First, when they say something stupid like , "what do you want your monthly payment to be, I say, "$0" , and remind them we are negotiating the price of the car.

I offer a price, and they say yes or no. Usually no, and I say "thanks for your time" and walk. Usually get a call the next day.

if we make it into the office, and they start with up-sales and garbage, then I get up and walk again. I've been happy with every purchase I have ever made from a dealer.

I haven't tried to buy anything since covid, but like Dadhawk said, I don't need any car bad enough to put up with shifty salesperson crap.

No sticker sounds illegal?

[Stephen W.]

Originally Posted by Sapphireho

I've never had problems at a dealership. First, when they say something stupid like , "what do you want your monthly payment to be, I say, "$0" , and remind them we are negotiating the price of the car.

I offer a price, and they say yes or no. Usually no, and I say "thanks for your time" and walk. Usually get a call the next day.

if we make it into the office, and they start with up-sales and garbage, then I get up and walk again. I've been happy with every purchase I have ever made from a dealer.

I haven't tried to buy anything since covid, but like Dadhawk said, I don't need any car bad enough to put up with shifty salesperson crap.

Sounds like the info given in those Youtube videos about how to deal with stealerships.
But if you want/need a vehicle you end up in this type of game.

Originally Posted by Sapphireho

No sticker sounds illegal?

I have not found a specific law but it is most definitely shady.


OMVIC (Ontario Motor Vehicle Industry Council) is charged with overseeing auto sales in Ontario. They have an extensive Code of Ethics and Standards of Business Practice. All persons dealing in the sale of motor vehicles in the province must be registered and in good standing with OMVIC.
e.g.
In carrying on a business, a registrant shall act with honesty, integrity and fairness. A registrant shall use the registrant's best efforts to prevent error, misrepresentation, fraud or any unethical practice in respect of a trade in a motor vehicle.



https://www.omvic.on.ca/portal/About...sOverview.aspx

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Pretty sure every new car must have the Monroney sticker on the window.

Well, might as well add my story. I was looking for a GR Corolla and at the time (and still to this day), every dealership had insane markups, plus long wait lists. That actually brings me to another story...so I called a "local" dealership to me to see if I can get on a wait list (this was shortly after it was announced). I called this dealership only as I know they don't markup cars. I was told they will not be doing a wait list and it will be first come, first serve. So I gave my info to the girl, and I never hear back. So I called a month later to see if they received any allocations. I asked for that girl, and was told she no longer worked there, but this girl can help me. She says she has no further info, so I told her to keep me updated. Another month passed by, and I call in and ask for this girl. She was off, but now this third girl can help. So I told her I was looking for a GRC...she said she can put me on their wait list. BUT WAIT a minute, they said they weren't doing a wait list. So I told her that that was what they told me. So I told her to put me on their wait list, and that I was #30 (so basically never at that dealership). I asked when did they start the wait list, and this girl told me the month before. So I then, irritated, I asked why didn't the second girl say she could put me on the list then when I had reached out a month prior! She couldn't answer.

So that brings me back to my original story. With no other local dealerships that I knew of that did not mark up their cars, I reached out to the dealership I used to sell cars at. I knew they never sold for more than sticker and always had a discount. I never sold a car AT sticker before, even the Tundra and Tacoma TRD Pros I sold, as it was the policy then. Anyway, my previous coworker there told me they had a red one in allocation, and that it's mine. Gave him my deposit. He said the car will be at MSRP, BUT will have two dealer add ons that are a must have, and were an additional $3k. That was weird because when I was selling cars there, add ons were there, but ultimately were not a requirement, and I never pushed them unless I knew it was something that my customer would like/benefit from. So I asked if I can replace them (it was some kind of security system, not lo-jack; and some kind of paint sealant). I asked him if I can substitute those for something else, like an extended warranty and something else, which cost more, but I find more use for. I just didn't want the electrical system being messed with, and a crappy coating put on a non-paint corrected surface. He said he'll ask the manager (someone new who was not there when I sold there).

So the car is in transit now, and he calls me to tell me that. I asked about the whole switching the two items thing. He goes, "about that...the manager is now adding a third item, and it's an additional $10k" So I asked wtf could that be. And he tells me, that he "wasn't told what that item is, but it's only worth $1k." So I straight up yelled, "that alone is $9k pure profit!" And he tells me that the manager would not switch the other two items either. So I told him forget it and to give me back my deposit. Just getting my deposit back took over a month, and I had to call my CC company and open a dispute.

I did end up getting a GRC and the most local dealership to me. They originally wanted either $11k or $13k over, and they low balled me on trading in my FR-S. Oh, and they wanted all the mods PLUS the stock parts. So I walked. Got a call back the next morning and they said they can do $5k over if I bought it immediately. I wasn't and still am not sure if the GRC would go the way of the Focus RS, so I agreed. The $5k markup did include some crappy coating (the one that we were trying to sell when I was selling cars, but I never pushed since I knew it wasn't worth it) and lock nuts. Fortunately for me, this dealership did a FANTASTIC job at paint correcting before putting the coating on. So that saved me a bunch of DIY time. Even though I hated paying over, I think it was worth it in the end since I knew by then that any "MSRP deal" will most likely have some dealer add on, and I really don't want the electrical system being messed with by adding some kind of security system, or some other BS like pin stripes, crappy low quality tint, etc.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Stephen W.

If you find this too long just skip to the bottom to read the summary.


Wife decided she’d like a new Hyundai Santa Cruz. She went to the local dealer to check ‘em out...

honestly, their dealership network has always been hyundai's greatest problem. they were well known in my area for 'fog a mirror, get financing!!' deals(usually packed with fees and obscene interest rates) for years before nissan ended up on life support and now is well known for the same thing.

biggest problem you're facing now is the pivot from the covid vehicle shortage.

all dealers were raking in significant price hikes while demand exceeded supply. now supply is starting to meet demand, and the price hikes no longer fly, but their expectations remain the same.

overall, a highly tumultuous time to be buying a car from anywhere.

[humfrz]

DAMN!

Mrs humfrz has been bugging me to get her a new car, since her Saturn is 16 years old.

After reading these horror stories - I think I will hold her off for a few more years -

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Originally Posted by humfrz

DAMN!

Mrs humfrz has been bugging me to get her a new car, since her Saturn is 16 years old.

After reading these horror stories - I think I will hold her off for a few more years -

Or you can take what you've read here (and maybe elsewhere) and use it to your advantage some how. But if it isn't absolutely necessary to get a new car right now, might be best to wait until supply gets back to the normal over abundance.

[blsfrs]

In 2010 my wife wanted a new Outback. We had an 02 Passat that was starting to have normal VW problems and wanted to trade it in. With the new body style, the Outbacks were hard to find but my wife did an internet search and found one at a dealer an hour away.

The car was everything we/she wanted (mainly heated seats), and Subaru offered a $1500 "internet" discount.

I wanted at least $6k trade in for the Passat. They started at $3k. I started at $9. After 5 trips to his manager the salesman offered me $5950 (WIN!).

We needed to finance a portion of cost and, at the time, Subaru offered a stupid low interest rate. We then sat down with the finance guy. He totaled everything up BUT left off the $1500 internet discount. I almost missed it because, by that time, we had been at the dealer for 4-5 hours. When I called him on it, he claimed ignorance and went and spoke to the manager then apologized profusely for the oversight and redid the paperwork to reflect the discount.

We still have the Outback. I just did the timing belt and sparkplugs. It's ready for the next 100k.