BRZ/FRS Vs DC2 Integra Type R

[WolfpackS2k]

I've always wondered a bit about this myself, and then earlier today someone over on the S2000 forum made a remark about how the Twins would easily lose to a Type R on a track. I'm of the mind that the BRZ would leave the Type R staring at it's taillights.

-near identical power to weight ratios
-superior weight distribution and CoG for Twins
-superior brakes for twins
-superior gearing for twins (6 speed compared to 5)

I love the ITR but I've autoxed one and feels quite front heavy compared to the Twins IMO.

What do you guys think?

[ayau]

I love theory racing.

The ITR has less drivetrain loss being that it's a FWD vehicle.

[Xdragonxb0i]

Originally Posted by ayau

I love theory racing.

The ITR has less drivetrain loss being that it's a FWD vehicle.

Idk maybe we can find lap times @ laguna, willows. Etc. for the type R.and twins. I think the type r will win. Vtec!

[WolfpackS2k]

I'll settle this on GT5 at the Nuburgring later tonight

[ST185RC]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I'll settle this on GT5 at the Nuburgring later tonight

Can you use B-Spec in time trials? I would think that's the most unbiased test from GT-5 if you don't have any pit inputs.

[shu5892001]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I'll settle this on GT5 at the Nuburgring later tonight

[DarkSunrise]

Stock v. stock? DC2-R. Biggest difference is the DC2-R came with RE010's stock, whereas the BRZ/FRS comes with Primacy HP or Turanza EL400's. That's a big tire difference.

If you equalize the tires, it becomes much closer. DC2-R supposedly ran an 8:43 at the Ring. GT86 on RE050's ran an 8:44, so once you equalize tires, the two cars are pretty much equal. That makes sense given how similar they are on paper.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27061

If you're curious about other Hondas, the fastest stock Ring times recorded by a CTR/EP3 was 8:47, and the S2000 clocked in at 8:39.

8:39 S2000
8:43 DC2-R
8:44 GT86 (RE050A)
8:47 CTR/EP3

Obviously take all that with a grain of salt. Different days, different drivers, etc.

[Sonolin]

http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/h...ota_ft-86.html

Seems like the gt-86 handles better, and integra barely edges out the gt-86 on the nordschliefe by ~1second (probably due to less drivetrain loss?).

(NOTE: Idk why but its not showing the correct time with the 86, that one is in the damp. In the dry the 86 got 8:44.90 on Nordschliefe, you can see this if you click on the Toyota gt-86 page. I've also seen much faster 1/4 mile times than this, ~14.5 is the fastest I've seen with a relatively stock brz but that's with some minor weight reduction I think, you should be able to get that with the Integra as well so straight line speed I'd say is more of a toss up. See http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/h...ubaru_brz.html)

I'd put my money on the 86 if it wasn't a high speed track. Otherwise, probably the 86 but that's bias

EDIT: After some further research (thanks @DarkSunrise!), it seems these times were with the stickier bridgestone tires. Good to know! I thought these were with the primacy's which would've been much more impressive, but a little unbelievable when you think of it

[WolfpackS2k]

Stock v. stock? DC2-R. Biggest difference is the DC2-R came with RE010's stock, whereas the BRZ/FRS comes with Primacy HP or Turanza EL400's. That's a big tire difference.

Are the RE010s really that great? I don't recall them being that impressive for their time, were only V-rated and had a 195 section width. People crap on the BRZ's tires but the Primacy HP's are 20mm wider, have a W speed rating and have a AA 240 tread wear rating.

[DarkSunrise]

My understanding is that RE010's were a pretty sticky track/autocross tire in their time. Tire Rack views Dunlop Z1 SS as the closest comparable modern-day tire, which is saying a lot.

Unfortunately, Bridgestone doesn't offer the RE010 in the Type R's dinky 195/55R15 size anymore, so Tire Rack recommended the Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec as the closest substitute. Like the RE010, Tire Rack classifies the Z1 Star Spec as an "Extreme Performance Summer" tire and it's both the highest rated tire of its type by Tire Rack customers and the best seller in its category.

http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/f...-civic-si.html

Also worth noting the RE050A's which the GT86 was tested on are pretty mild summer tires.

[WolfpackS2k]

That's very interesting to know. As to the RE050As I believe a version of them are standard on the 370Z. Honda S2000 AP2 came standard on RE050s (no "A").

[DarkSunrise]

What I find amazing is that switching from Primacy HP to RE050A improved the GT86's Ring time by 25 seconds (9:09 --> 8:44). That is astounding. I wonder how much of a difference Z2 SS or Rivals would make.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

What I find amazing is that switching from Primacy HP to RE050A improved the GT86's Ring time by 25 seconds (9:09 --> 8:44). That is astounding. I wonder how much of a difference Z2 SS or Rivals would make.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Are the RE010s really that great? I don't recall them being that impressive for their time, were only V-rated and had a 195 section width. People crap on the BRZ's tires but the Primacy HP's are 20mm wider, have a W speed rating and have a AA 240 tread wear rating.

Width is not important (to an extent). The compound of the tire is what makes the difference.