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GR86 General Topics (2nd Gen 2022+ Toyota 86) General topics for the GR86 second-gen 86


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Old 08-20-2020, 05:16 PM   #1611
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Originally Posted by WildCard600 View Post
Toyota sold 2,383,349 cars in 2019. Let's say for the sake of argument that every one sold had a cellular transmitter and cost $2 for the company to keep it active.

That would cost $4,766,698 a month to harvest that user data and $57,200,376 a year. Over 5 years those same 2.3 million cars sold just in 2019 would cost the company $286,001,880 in cell charges alone.

Is there really that much money in random people's driving habits ?
Odds are it would cost them far far less than $2.
As pointed out there are cars that have been sending data for years.
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Old 08-20-2020, 06:21 PM   #1612
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Originally Posted by Tcoat View Post
Odds are it would cost them far far less than $2.
As pointed out there are cars that have been sending data for decades.
I mean, I know I’m a pedant but.
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Old 08-31-2020, 12:59 PM   #1613
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Google translation

Quote:
March 2021 debut

The FR sports created in 2012 by the joint development of Toyota and Subaru will switch to the second generation in March 2021.

The current BRZ has already finished accepting orders in July 2020, and the Toyota 86 is also expected to end sales in September 2020.

The basic chassis is a carryover of the current model, but the knowledge gained from the improvements made so far has been utilized to obtain the rigidity suitable for being called a new model.

The engine mounted on the high-rigidity chassis is a 2.4-liter, horizontally opposed 4-cylinder FA24 model. The displacement increased by 400 cc from the current type has a great effect on increasing the torque, the maximum torque has been increased from 21.6 kg of the current 2L to about 24.5 kg, and the maximum torque generating rotation has been reduced, greatly improving drivability. ..

Unfortunately, the price is likely to increase from 3 million yen, but it can be said that it is a full model change with enough value.
https://bestcarweb.jp/news/scoop/190283
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Old 08-31-2020, 01:20 PM   #1614
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Would we be considered millionaires in Japan...?
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Old 08-31-2020, 03:44 PM   #1615
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another click bait article with Google translation. i think we should lump insider info and fake news together all here. no need to start a new thread every time something pops up on the news feed.

https://bestcarweb.jp/news/187041

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The next model will be debuting next year! 86/BRZ Why unusual sales end?

What is the future of the 86/BRZ, which is now a rare domestic sports car, born of the collaboration between Toyota and Subaru?

In 2012, the two-door coupe sports Toyota 86 and Subaru BRZ, which were launched in the winter of sports cars, entered the eighth year of their appearance. BRZ finished accepting orders for the current model in July while the attention was paid to the trends of the next model.

And, as it has been reported in 86, since the start of this month, it has been revealed through interviews that the current model has been virtually discontinued.

It is clearly stated that the 86 and BRZ are developing the next model, and it is extremely rare that there is no announcement about the next model despite the end of sales of the current model.

Why did it happen? And what about the next model of interest? Mitsuhiro Kunizawa explains.

Information on the next model that will be complicated with the current model
Information on the next-generation 86/BRZ is intricate. To begin with, the baton touch between conventional and new models will be seamless (seamless) if normal.

While selling the conventional type, the order will be suspended while taking into consideration the information flow of the next type, production volume, orders, inventory, etc., and new orders will start.

However, regarding 86/BRZ, there is no mysterious information about the new model.

As you know, the outline of new cars, which have been talked about a lot, can be understood at least half a year ago. Of course, although strict confidentiality is maintained, the actual vehicle will be put out of the development department for advertising including sales promotion activities.

For the first generation 86/BRZ, information began to flow about a year before the announcement, and it was revealed to the specs about half a year before the release.

On the other hand, speaking of the next-generation 86/BRZ, the only thing that has become clear at the moment is that "they are under intensive development for commercial production". Even the engine installed is divided into the turbo theory and the NA theory.

What is the background behind the delay in the development of the new 86/BRZ?
Why did this happen? It seems there are two reasons when I look it up.

First of all, the start of development was delayed. Normally, we decide the outline of the next model about 4 years before the release. However, at that time Toyota was having trouble with the Supra, which was co-developed with BMW, and could not afford to seriously consider the 86/BRZ.

If I recall Toyota and Subaru at the time, I think that I didn't want to rush a full model change for the 86 & BRZ.

In addition, neither Toyota nor Subaru felt the same motivation as when they made the first 86 & BRZ. My impression at the time was that even the next-generation development plan was doubtful.

On the other hand, it seems that the market expectation of the next 86 & BRZ was unexpectedly loud. For Akio Toyoda, it may have been a difficult choice for the president, as it was a model that was put into production. I think that the start of development was delayed because of this.

Fuel consumption and noise regulations behind the current BRZ end-of-sale
On the other hand, there is no waiting for regulation of fuel consumption and noise. Subaru is particularly difficult.

The company average fuel efficiency called CAFE starting from 2020 and the average of all models sold must be 20.3 km/L or more in JC08 mode conversion.

The 13.4km/L of 86/BRZ pushes down the average fuel efficiency. Sales cannot be continued from the perspective of environmental issues.

So, the strategy was to discontinue the 86 & BRZ and switch to a new model with improved fuel efficiency. Naturally, the next-generation 86 & BRZ will aim to improve fuel efficiency significantly compared to the current model.

Where you want about 16km/L in JC08 mode conversion. Fortunately, the current 86/BRZ does not have an idle stop, so there is room for improvement.

Is the rumored 2.4L turbo difficult? New 86/BRZ debuts next year
Considering the above backbone, I think that the appearance of the next-generation 86 & BRZ can be seen.

In other words, 1) We want to keep development costs as low as possible by placing importance on survival over sales. 2) It is said that Akio Toyoda will fail if performance is not improved.

It is a difficult issue that is not a trade-off but a trade-off that must improve performance and fuel efficiency without spending money.

In total, if it is based on Subaru's new platform or Toyota's TNGA, there will be less commonality and the development and production costs will increase significantly.

The platform we are currently using is not bad as a feature, so we will introduce new technologies to maximize the balance between performance and cost. Therefore, I don't think the wheelbase will change.

Although it is an engine, considering the fuel efficiency and performance, the 260 horsepower 2400cc turbo installed in the rumored American outback is tough. However, the performance and fuel efficiency cannot be improved with the 2000cc currently installed.

There is great potential for a new generation such as the 2400cc direct injection without the turbo and the 1800cc direct injection turbo for the new Levorg. In any case, there is no doubt that a new model with better performance and fuel efficiency will debut by 2021.

However, unlike the current model that can compete in the 2000cc class, there is no class that can be used in motor sports in terms of displacement. "Hana" like the current model popular as a fighting group may fade. There is a high possibility that the current 86 & BRZ, out of print popular car.
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Old 08-31-2020, 03:49 PM   #1616
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Would we be considered millionaires in Japan...?
If it did, then that would make < 90% of the people in Japan millionaires as well...
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Old 08-31-2020, 03:56 PM   #1617
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My track manager friend has driven the new 86, they had it at his track for testing/promotional purposes and he was allowed to drive the car. He was under heavy NDA and couldn't give me any real info, other than it was good and felt faster than the old car (he couldn't tell me any details and referred to the car with a wink and nod as, "a car you would be interested in").

I was surprised to hear that he got to drive it, and reading between the lines with what he did say, it sounded like this was a pre-production/finished car and not a test mule. I was disappointed I didn't get a heads up and wasn't, "accidentally" at the track when the car showed up.
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Old 08-31-2020, 04:10 PM   #1618
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My track manager friend has driven the new 86, they had it at his track for testing/promotional purposes and he was allowed to drive the car. He was under heavy NDA and couldn't give me any real info, other than it was good and felt faster than the old car (he couldn't tell me any details and referred to the car with a wink and nod as, "a car you would be interested in").

I was surprised to hear that he got to drive it, and reading between the lines with what he did say, it sounded like this was a pre-production/finished car and not a test mule. I was disappointed I didn't get a heads up and wasn't, "accidentally" at the track when the car showed up.
Oh yeah, from the product timeline and testing pics it seems like they're pretty deep in R&D.

Pre-production test car with camo wrap.


Test mule (different drivetrain and retune suspensions?)
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Old 08-31-2020, 04:37 PM   #1619
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Originally Posted by 14stu View Post
My track manager friend has driven the new 86, they had it at his track for testing/promotional purposes and he was allowed to drive the car. He was under heavy NDA and couldn't give me any real info, other than it was good and felt faster than the old car (he couldn't tell me any details and referred to the car with a wink and nod as, "a car you would be interested in").

I was surprised to hear that he got to drive it, and reading between the lines with what he did say, it sounded like this was a pre-production/finished car and not a test mule. I was disappointed I didn't get a heads up and wasn't, "accidentally" at the track when the car showed up.
if it 'felt' faster than the current car, my guess would be
1.) No more torque dip (or more torque available to overcome torque dip)
2.) The power increase isnt that drastic
3.) The internets will still complain about lack of power and a minivan will be faster.

I think the japanese yen has an extra 3 zeros compared to the north american coin. So you might sound like a millionaire, but youre really not lol.
So a 3000ish dollar increase in price....ugh.

Last edited by Sasquachulator; 08-31-2020 at 04:58 PM.
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Old 08-31-2020, 07:59 PM   #1620
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Originally Posted by 14stu View Post
My track manager friend has driven the new 86, they had it at his track for testing/promotional purposes and he was allowed to drive the car. He was under heavy NDA and couldn't give me any real info, other than it was good and felt faster than the old car (he couldn't tell me any details and referred to the car with a wink and nod as, "a car you would be interested in").

I was surprised to hear that he got to drive it, and reading between the lines with what he did say, it sounded like this was a pre-production/finished car and not a test mule. I was disappointed I didn't get a heads up and wasn't, "accidentally" at the track when the car showed up.
That means it is happening. 2nd Gen then not a myth anymore.
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Old 09-01-2020, 05:51 AM   #1621
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Originally Posted by 14stu View Post
My track manager friend has driven the new 86, they had it at his track for testing/promotional purposes and he was allowed to drive the car. He was under heavy NDA and couldn't give me any real info, other than it was good and felt faster than the old car (he couldn't tell me any details and referred to the car with a wink and nod as, "a car you would be interested in").
If the gen2 N/A 2.4L doesn't "feel" faster than the gen1 N/A 2.0L, then they're definitely doing something wrong and I would be very uninterested in buying it.
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Old 09-01-2020, 09:47 AM   #1622
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Dollars to doughnuts people are not going to be happy with the performance.

Well, except for the "purity" crowd.
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Old 09-01-2020, 10:06 AM   #1623
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Dollars to doughnuts people are not going to be happy with the performance.

Well, except for the "purity" crowd.
Look at the bright side, now you don't have to trade in and give Toyota more money.

Famous last words...

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Old 09-01-2020, 02:11 PM   #1624
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Originally Posted by gymratter View Post
So, the strategy was to discontinue the 86 & BRZ and switch to a new model with improved fuel efficiency. Naturally, the next-generation 86 & BRZ will aim to improve fuel efficiency significantly compared to the current model.

Where you want about 16km/L in JC08 mode conversion. Fortunately, the current 86/BRZ does not have an idle stop, so there is room for improvement.
No one mentioning that potential add-on?
That's worse then eyesight, which seems confirmed. That article definitely makes me think the toyota fuel system is gone too, which "those in the know" have hinted at. I'm betting the redline is coming down in favor of a bit more midrange torque.
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