Supra...killing the 86/BRZ?

[AdmiralAhab]

Originally Posted by humfrz

Nah, AdmiralAhab , you're OK. You just happened to jump into a thread on this forum that was awash in the middle of a pissing contest.



You are obviously more comfortable driving a car with an AT - and that's OK.



When several of us were learning to drive a vehicle, we didn't have a choice, so we "learned" to drive vehicles with a MT.



For example, back when the AT was just being introduced to the masses, it was a sluggish, inefficient, power consuming transmission. However, the ATs of today don't have to be that way.



Some of us older drivers have that past AT thing, stuck in our heads -



Personally, I have a split personally when it comes to transmission preferences. I prefer a MT in light weight sports cars (FR-S/BRZ/86/Miata) and an AT in larger vehicles (sedans, SUVs etc.).



I figure it's more important to pick a car that comes in a color you like than one with a transmission you don't like.









humfrz

I get you. I had the opposite problem: by the time I was tall enough to see over the wheel, everyone in my family had already moved to automatics. Just a little more daunting having your first manual experience be on the open road at rush hour. I'd still very much like to learn manual, but I don't think it's going to really be possible for a long while yet.

[Braces]

Haven't been back in awhile and boy have I missed the fun.
Waited for the Supra. Hated the collaboration aspect. Car looks nothing like the FT-1 concept. No twin clutch is a killer also. Bought something else.

As for MT vs. AT. Drive whatever you want. No need to get religious about it. It's a damn car. I will tell you that not all paddle shifters are alike.

But please .... carry on.

[Leonardo]

Originally Posted by AdmiralAhab

I'm saying a MT in the Supra would be outperformed by the auto. Let's be real here, for any spirited driving it's going to be used in paddle mode, and it's my understanding that these transmissions (at least higher end units) have been faster shifting than manually moving a lever for well over a decade.

I am well aware plenty of people enjoy the option of an MT, but I do find it baffling to prefer something that would be detrimental to the car's performance. Obviously, the inverse is true on the twins, where the manual mode of the AT is okay at best.

And yeah, what I meant by "something stupid" has a lot to do with feeling out the gates. The way back would have involved frequent shifting, and I was having a very hard time feeling between 3rd and 5th. If I could have driven highway home, I probably would have just got the MT. XD

Ok. I don't think a MT would be detrimental to it's performance at all.

And, yes let's be real, "it's your understanding" , not mine. I don't care whose faster, what others think, and that an AT now can shift faster. I mean you said it in your next paragraph, the AT is ok at best. An MT provides enjoyment and engagement. (Damn I'm missing my S2000 now...)

Anyway, there is way more to driving than being the fastest, IMO.

"Frequent shifting" , yes that's part of owning an MT. I've owned 25 MT cars and 6 AT.

I also prefer the AT in my FR-S. And for me, it is not a downgrade in ANY way. To others: Yes. And thats fine with me.

[AdmiralAhab]

Originally Posted by Leonardo

Ok. I don't think a MT would be detrimental to it's performance at all.



And, yes let's be real, "it's your understanding" , not mine. I don't care whose faster, what others think, and that an AT now can shift faster. I mean you said it in your next paragraph, the AT is ok at best. An MT provides enjoyment and engagement. (Damn I'm missing my S2000 now...)



Anyway, there is way more to driving than being the fastest, IMO.



"Frequent shifting" , yes that's part of owning an MT. I've owned 25 MT cars and 6 AT.



I also prefer the AT in my FR-S. And for me, it is not a downgrade in ANY way. To others: Yes. And thats fine with me.

Please do not mix up my statements on the AT in the FR-S with my statement on the AT in the Supra. The FR-S AT is the "okay at best".

[Leonardo]

Originally Posted by AdmiralAhab

Please do not mix up my statements on the AT in the FR-S with my statement on the AT in the Supra. The FR-S AT is the "okay at best".

Why not? To me they are the same. It's "your understanding" of them that's being clouded by your preconceived notions.

[AdmiralAhab]

Originally Posted by Leonardo

Why not? To me they are the same. It's "your understanding" of them that's being clouded by your preconceived notions.

And why are they the same to you?

[Leonardo]

Originally Posted by AdmiralAhab

And why are they the same to you?

Have you seen the comments on how others want a MT in the new supra?


Or are you still baffled that others don't want the AT?

[AdmiralAhab]

Originally Posted by Leonardo

Have you seen the comments on how others want a MT in the new supra?


Or are you still baffled that others don't want the AT?

I'm asking how the ATs are "the same", since that's what you said.

[Leonardo]

Originally Posted by AdmiralAhab

I'm asking how the ATs are "the same", since that's what you said.

They are both automatics. They both do not provide the same level of engagement by having a third pedal for MT enthusiasts.

[AdmiralAhab]

Originally Posted by Leonardo

They are both automatics. They both do not provide the same level of engagement by having a third pedal for MT enthusiasts.

Okay.

[86MLR]

Which auto are we tallking about:

Conventional with torque converter like the 86-BRZ-Supra

Single clutch like that rubbish from Alfa

DCT dual clutch, GTR-Ferrari

CVT- Subaru WRX- Honda

I won't bring up Fords DSG Powershit transmission which likes to eat itself in stop go traffic.

As to Supra has the conventional type torque converter (albeit nothing like the old slush box) the auto in the Supra should put power down really well and not eat itself daily driving in traffic, will not get confused, and you will not really feel the shift, the things just seem to accelerate so smoothly.

And if it's like the auto boxs that are in the Lexus, I don't think the performance or reliability of the gearbox will be a issue.

Maintenance wise I like the transmission it has, and it should be bullet proof, as long as you dont redline it and try to launch from neutral.

Now the rest of the auto family according to me.

Single clutch, LOL Rubbish.

DCT, great for performace, eat themselves in stop go traffic or low speed, reversing, towing, going to cost a fortune to fix, they like to brake, servicing costs, going to cost a fortune to fix, (my views on DSG may be jaded from VW, AUDI transmissions)

CVT, most underrated system out there, early CVT were rubbish though, very expensive to service, best system to deliver constant max power to driveline, not suited to big power though, I believe, I have never owned one.

So......

If I was to design a road car like the Supra with a auto, I would use the transmission they chose because it is a performance street car, not a race car.

If the car never sees traffic, then I would use a DCT.

If it was up to me I would have a manual as well, so I can do mad launches and clutch kicks, like you do.

I wonder what starts to break when people start winding these things up?

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by AdmiralAhab

I get you. I had the opposite problem: by the time I was tall enough to see over the wheel, everyone in my family had already moved to automatics. Just a little more daunting having your first manual experience be on the open road at rush hour. I'd still very much like to learn manual, but I don't think it's going to really be possible for a long while yet.

Fer sure, fer sure, the place to learn to drive a vehicle with a MT is NOT out on the open road.

When I was starting my MT driving career (other than tractors), it was in a wide open hay field. We had this 1941 Ford 1.5 ton truck, to pick up hay bales out of the fields. Now, weighing in at about 60 lbs, there was no way I could load a 80 pound hay bale.

So, I became the driver and my dad the loader. The truck had a 4 speed floor shift MT with a granny gear just wouldn't quit. Now, there was no way I could see over the steering wheel and out the windshield to see where I was going AND work the foot gas, clutch and brake at the same time.

Improvise! I would get the old truck moving forward in the granny gear, then open the door and stick my head out to see where the next hay bale was. Then I would duck back in the cab and hit the clutch to stop the truck so my dad could load up the bale of hay. Rinse and repeat all over the field till there were no more hay bales.

Now, if you really want to learn how to drive a MT vehicle, I suggest you find a friend/relative with a MT vehicle and let him/her turn you loose, by yourself, in a large, empty parking lot.

It ain't rocket science and you will be shifting just like a race car driver before you know it -


humfrz

[86MLR]

Originally Posted by humfrz

Fer sure, fer sure, the place to learn to drive a vehicle with a MT is NOT out on the open road.

It ain't rocket science and you will be shifting just like a race car driver before you know it -


humfrz

I taught my daughter to drive a manual on base, big car parks and minimal traffic.

I was told once to "not" teach her to do donuts in the car park by the MP's, we were actually doing tight figure eights around cones.

I did get into trouble from her a few times for telling her to "go faster and do a skid, skids are mad".

She smiles like a Cheshire cat when the tyres squeal.

[Leonardo]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

I taught my daughter to drive a manual on base, big car parks and minimal traffic.

I was told once to "not" teach her to do donuts in the car park by the MP's, we were actually doing tight figure eights around cones.

I did get into trouble from her a few times for telling her to "go faster and do a skid, skids are mad".

She smiles like a Cheshire cat when the tyres squeal.

That's an awesome story!


I learned on an old ford bronco with the stiffest clutch pedal I have ever felt.