Will there ever be a cheap tuning solution for the GR86 after Cobb's announcement?

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Ummm did you read back or just skim the last couple of posts? Beyond a couple of recent references the discussion has not been around loud exhausts but overall modding that impacts emissions. Not only did I mention the campaign to preserve motorsports several times I linked to a site twice. Not sure that Turn 14 is going to have much lobbying power beyond making the local news.
And who the hell are these "true enthusiasts" you speak of? They the 18 year old hairbun crowd running around with pop tunes and general being d!icks that draw attention to the issue by annoying everybody else?

Turn 14 is protecting their own interests.

A lot of "scene queens" consider themselves enthusiasts. It's a big reason I have never been into the whole car club thing.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Turn 14 is protecting their own interests.

A lot of "scene queens" consider themselves enthusiasts. It's a big reason I have never been into the whole car club thing.

I hate that word "enthusiast" with a passion anyway. Or at least the way it is used by many on this (and other) forums and social media. It is usually used to describe the speaker's priorities and preferences while excluding anybody that disagrees with them. The coal roll crowd are "enthusiasts" as are the stock car detail fanatic, the Prius mileage seekers, the classic car restorers, and so on. Anybody that likes cars are an "enthusiast" but more often than not if you don't track, attend meets or heavily modify your car you are looked down upon as a bad "enthusiast".

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I hate that word "enthusiast" with a passion anyway. Or at least the way it is used by many on this (and other) forums and social media. It is usually used to describe the speaker's priorities and preferences while excluding anybody that disagrees with them. The coal roll crowd are "enthusiasts" as are the stock car detail fanatic, the Prius mileage seekers, the classic car restorers, and so on. Anybody that likes cars are an "enthusiast" but more often than not if you don't track, attend meets or heavily modify your car you are looked down upon as a bad "enthusiast".

I consider most car people enthusiasts. I don't care if it is stock or not. The only ones that really bug me are the ones that get into the modding scene with no aim or purpose, just attention. At that point I think they have graduated to "scene queen." It's funny cause I have noticed most of the tracking community is more receptive to all cars then anywhere else I have met car people. Tracking a Viper ACR, sweet. Tracking a 200k+ mile stock Saab 9-3, also sweet. People are weird, sometimes I wish I wasn't one.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by bcj

Deere has no user serviceable parts.

[/sad trombone]

You can’t tell me what I can’t do.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I hate that word "enthusiast" with a passion anyway. Or at least the way it is used by many on this (and other) forums and social media. It is usually used to describe the speaker's priorities and preferences while excluding anybody that disagrees with them. The coal roll crowd are "enthusiasts" as are the stock car detail fanatic, the Prius mileage seekers, the classic car restorers, and so on. Anybody that likes cars are an "enthusiast" but more often than not if you don't track, attend meets or heavily modify your car you are looked down upon as a bad "enthusiast".

I am guilty of this, but I think you and I are mixing up adjectives. You are probably thinking vehicle enthusiast, which is more general, and I am thinking driving enthusiast. Specifically, car driving enthusiast and not the off-road driving enthusiast or the cross-country-touring enthusiast. Like how ‘sports car’ is now overused, muddling the definition and requires a nuanced explanation, so does enthusiast, as you have highlighted.

I tend to think of the car enthusiast in articles as often referencing the driving enthusiast who wants a lightweight, great handling, analog, quick car that has a communicative chassis that makes the car engaging for spirited driving. If I was reading a truck magazine, a truck enthusiast would bring to mind the same thing for that genre, so a rugged, engaging and capable truck for off-roading, mudding, rock crawling, trail driving, etc. The high-mileage and cross country driving enthusiasts could be driving on cruise control or in the passenger seat, so I don’t know how much of an enthusiast they are for driving—more like they just enjoy getting out on the open road whether that is in a Winnebago or whatever.

I think we hear and read of enthusiasts being referenced in the vein that I described because we have seen a precipitous drop off in the models and production of sports cars and of the features classically enjoyed by the driving enthusiast: cars are heavier, DBW, electric steering, less or no manual transmissions, etc. I don’t think it is a matter of us just being in our bubble or echo chamber.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I am guilty of this, but I think you and I are mixing up adjectives. You are probably thinking vehicle enthusiast, which is more general, and I am thinking driving enthusiast. Specifically, car driving enthusiast and not the off-road driving enthusiast or the cross-country-touring enthusiast. Like how ‘sports car’ is now overused, muddling the definition and requires a nuanced explanation, so does enthusiast, as you have highlighted.

I tend to think of the car enthusiast in articles as often referencing the driving enthusiast who wants a lightweight, great handling, analog, quick car that has a communicative chassis that makes the car engaging for spirited driving. If I was reading a truck magazine, a truck enthusiast would bring to mind the same thing for that genre, so a rugged, engaging and capable truck for off-roading, mudding, rock crawling, trail driving, etc. The high-mileage and cross country driving enthusiasts could be driving on cruise control or in the passenger seat, so I don’t know how much of an enthusiast they are for driving—more like they just enjoy getting out on the open road whether that is in a Winnebago or whatever.

I think we hear and read of enthusiasts being referenced in the vein that I described because we have seen a precipitous drop off in the models and production of sports cars and of the features classically enjoyed by the driving enthusiast: cars are heavier, DBW, electric steering, less or no manual transmissions, etc. I don’t think it is a matter of us just being in our bubble or echo chamber.

the issue is that we all want to distill the word down to a specific subset of the grouping. human nature is annoying.

if i say someone's autistic, or color blind, most people jump to wheelchair-bound/rainman characters, or people that see in black and white only and can't tell if that stop light is red or green.

the reality is there's a nearly infinite spectrum of diagnosable symptoms from 'normal' to outright vegetable state/blindness that count for either of those conditions.

same with 'enthusiast'. an enthusiast is anyone that has an interest in the subject. we are all car enthusiasts, as we all have had enough of an interest to sign up for a car-specific forum at least once.

wtf is a 'real enthusiast'? the distinction is what annoys me. it implies some of us are just here for improving our status somewhere, and actually have no interest in the subject.

but honestly, i'd rather be a 'fake enthusiast' than be associated with the groups of people constantly screaming for attention that they're 'real enthusiasts'...

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by soundman98

the issue is that we all want to distill the word down to a specific subset of the grouping. human nature is annoying.

if i say someone's autistic, or color blind, most people jump to wheelchair-bound/rainman characters, or people that see in black and white only and can't tell if that stop light is red or green.

the reality is there's a nearly infinite spectrum of diagnosable symptoms from 'normal' to outright vegetable state/blindness that count for either of those conditions.

same with 'enthusiast'. an enthusiast is anyone that has an interest in the subject. we are all car enthusiasts, as we all have had enough of an interest to sign up for a car-specific forum at least once.

wtf is a 'real enthusiast'? the distinction is what annoys me. it implies some of us are just here for improving our status somewhere, and actually have no interest in the subject.

but honestly, i'd rather be a 'fake enthusiast' than be associated with the groups of people constantly screaming for attention that they're 'real enthusiasts'...

If I had a dollar for every time I disagreed with somebody here and got the “well you are not a real enthusiast so go away“ comeback I could buy a nice steak dinner!

[soundman98]

now i'm thinking about getting a 'fake enthusiast' windshield banner for my car.

at least that way i can let everyone know i'm only in it for the myspace glory.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by soundman98

the issue is that we all want to distill the word down to a specific subset of the grouping. human nature is annoying.

if i say someone's autistic, or color blind, most people jump to wheelchair-bound/rainman characters, or people that see in black and white only and can't tell if that stop light is red or green.

the reality is there's a nearly infinite spectrum of diagnosable symptoms from 'normal' to outright vegetable state/blindness that count for either of those conditions.

same with 'enthusiast'. an enthusiast is anyone that has an interest in the subject. we are all car enthusiasts, as we all have had enough of an interest to sign up for a car-specific forum at least once.

wtf is a 'real enthusiast'? the distinction is what annoys me. it implies some of us are just here for improving our status somewhere, and actually have no interest in the subject.

but honestly, i'd rather be a 'fake enthusiast' than be associated with the groups of people constantly screaming for attention that they're 'real enthusiasts'...

Right, which is why I said the automotive journalist and forum members here are typically NOT talking about car enthusiasts. Someone can be a quadriplegic that can’t drive or a six year old, and still be a car enthusiast. The use of enthusiast is more specific to driving enthusiasts who were disappointed to see no manual option and fake vents on the new Supra, for instance. Journalists weren’t writing about how happy the enthusiasts were for all the fake vents because they are easier for the show and shine crowd to maintain, nor were they talking much about the layers or hardness of the paint, which might be good for polishing, nor were they discussing the clearance potential for slamming and stancing the car.

Again, mainstream automotive journalism focuses less on fads like stancing or lifting cars on Dubs. They focus less on show and shine, except for the fact that these cars are great for pictures. They focus less on large, luxury sedans or boring SUVs or on pedestrian vehicles like minivans, where the family enthusiast would be the reader. The big focus is on driving enthusiasts and track enthusiasts, which is typically why there is a track or performance review section of their articles and a subjective section from driving on some canyon roads. The measure of subjectivity is based on how well the car is a communicative and performing track car, while how well it can still be comfortably driving on the streets. It doesn’t matter if it is a true sports car, a sports sedan, a GT or a supercar, the measure is always something like a Miata for fun, a Lotus for handling, a Ferrari for sound, etc.

Like all words, their definitions change with usage over time, which is why ‘sports car’ no longer has the same meaning it once had, so I’m not saying the word enthusiast is cornered by driving and track enthusiasts, but it is undeniable that the mainstream automotive media and majority of people are referencing driving and track enthusiasts when they use the word enthusiast. When someone says the GR86 is an enthusiast car, they could be saying the platform is ideal for the satire car enthusiasts or the lifted Dub enthusiasts, but we likely know that they mean the common usage of enthusiast. Also, if you say that enthusiast means anything then enthusiast means nothing.

[gen3v8]

Are you an Enthusiast or are you Passionate about motor vehicles.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

...The use of enthusiast is more specific to driving enthusiasts who were disappointed to see no manual option and fake vents on the new Supra, for instance

In the end though, your definition of a "driving enthusiast" is just that, your definition. Wanting a manual transmission or a light car defines a person no more a "driving enthusiast" than does wanting an EV that weighs 5,000lbs but handles like its on rails.

In the end, I think I'm with @Tcoat on this (assuming I read him right) the word "enthusiast" really only means whatever the speaker/writer wants it to mean, which in the end mean it means not much of anything except a way to add some level of exclusivity to something that doesn't really need it.

99% of the people that are enthusiastic about cars, drive them. They just drive them enthusiastically in different ways.

[Arthur-A]

I'm talking about people who enjoy driving lightweight sports cars or "performance" cars whatever you call it (S-chassis, 86 for example, you get the point) on race tracks grip or drift, or on mountain roads. Who modify their cars improving their handling, engine performance, etc. People to whom hearing exhaust or engine is a music to their ears. It's actually shocking that such people aren't a majority on a forum dedicated to such a car. Maybe it's just loud vocal minority, who knows.

[Arthur-A]

Just check out Best Motoring or Video Option - best illustration of enthusiasts.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Arthur-A

I'm talking about people who enjoy driving lightweight sports cars or "performance" cars whatever you call it (S-chassis, 86 for example, you get the point) on race tracks grip or drift, or on mountain roads. Who modify their cars improving their handling, engine performance, etc. People to whom hearing exhaust or engine is a music to their ears. It's actually shocking that such people aren't a majority on a forum dedicated to such a car. Maybe it's just loud vocal minority, who knows.

So making my point that an “enthusiast” can only be somebody that agrees with your preferences.
Many many many modded cars didn’t improve shit.
I love a good exhaust but that does not mean for one second I like every exhaust just because it is loud.
Pop and bang tunes are just for morons the need attention because their dad left before they were born and mommy had to lock them in the closet when her male “friends” came over.