follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Speed By Design
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > 1st Gens: Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 / Subaru BRZ > BRZ First-Gen (2012+) -- General Topics

BRZ First-Gen (2012+) -- General Topics All discussions about the first-gen Subaru BRZ coupe


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-21-2023, 12:54 PM   #1
gshopper
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Drives: 2003 330i, 2019 BRZ (blue, with PP)
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 44
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
RIP F20 -- questions about causes, tunes, and E85

Hi all
I have a 2019 BRZ that is/was my daily driver and track toy. It has 47K miles, and about 30 track days on the clock. It has a flex fuel kit, headers (JDL) and a tune by a prominent East Coast tuner. It gets frequent oil changes (Mobil1 5W30 or 0W40 in the summer) and has an oil cooler. I overfill the oil by a small amount when I track the car. Blackstone oil analysis last year showed minimal wear, and high TBN (meaning that I could have run the oil longer before changing it).

Last week, at the track, it was running great. I was running about 45% ethanol. I was accelerating, engine was at about 5 or 6K in third. And then.... I heard a bang, a cloud of smoke came from the hood and it dropped a few quarts of oil on the track. I don't know exactly what happened; I'll find out when the motor gets pulled for a swap. But there were fragments of metal in the engine bay. Probably parts of the block. Maybe it threw a rod... I couldn't see anything obvious from above, but there is a definite hole in the engine somewhere, and it definitely won't crank.

I am getting a new short block, and I will have my mechanic swap it in. My questions are:

1. I realize tracking the car is hard on the motor, and this has had a bunch of track days. But the FA20 is supposed to be stout, and there are many people who have flogged their engines more than me and had no problems. Was I just unlucky, or might it have been related to the header/tune/ethanol?

2. How should I configure the new engine? I still have the stock header so I can have everything stock. However, I have heard from people who are knowledgeable about tunes, that tuning actually helps with engine 'health and longevity'.

3. Can a tune be done more for longevity rather than power? I would gladly sacrifice a few HP for a more reliable engine.

Your thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

Glenn
gshopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2023, 02:21 AM   #2
dpfarr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Drives: BRZ ts
Location: SACRAMENTO
Posts: 758
Thanks: 415
Thanked 796 Times in 303 Posts
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Bummer.

When I had my tune done, I specified longevity. I’m still aware that pushing it isn’t a recipe for longevity. I hope your dude discovers something that you can add to preventative maintenance and last you through
dpfarr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2023, 01:14 PM   #3
Stephen W.
Senior Member
 
Stephen W.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Drives: 1993 Caterham HPC Evo
Location: Quinte West Ontario
Posts: 1,560
Thanks: 1,335
Thanked 2,670 Times in 1,047 Posts
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
What had you done to the old engine to prevent oil starvation? Have your mechanic do a thorough post mortem. It might have been a valve that dropped and kissed a piston causing a rod to snap. Or an end cap came off. What you need to do to the new engine depends on what caused the old one to go BOOM!
Attached Images
 
Stephen W. is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Stephen W. For This Useful Post:
Opie (11-15-2023)
Old 10-22-2023, 02:09 PM   #4
Grady
Senior Member
 
Grady's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Drives: BRZ Yellow, 2019 Ranger, 2011 Evora
Location: Dallas
Posts: 1,700
Thanks: 354
Thanked 1,485 Times in 779 Posts
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Garage
I abuse mine at the track. 2019 stock block with AVO turbo and on E85. I shoot for around 8psi of boost when tracking. You do have more miles and track days than me but I have had no issues yet. I do run 0W-40 and will change the oil if it is over 1K on it or 2 track days. I do not have a baffled pan so I do run 1qt high. Yes you can back down the tune some for safety. You may have a bad tune? Without logging when the engine went it will be harder to determine what came first. Do you have the flapper valve in the fuel tank installed? Do you top off your tank between sessions? If your track has any long left sweepers you can go lean and damage you engine. Do you have an oil cooler? What weight oil are you using? I have the DT flex fuel kit with the fuel pressure safety just in case.
Grady is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Grady For This Useful Post:
NoHaveMSG (10-24-2023)
Old 10-22-2023, 08:19 PM   #5
Tokay444
Anti stance.
 
Tokay444's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Drives: 17 White 860. RCE Tarmac 2. RE-71RS
Location: Not Canada
Posts: 1,689
Thanks: 915
Thanked 988 Times in 564 Posts
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
You had an F20 in it?
Tokay444 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Tokay444 For This Useful Post:
alphasaur (10-22-2023)
Old 10-22-2023, 08:58 PM   #6
gshopper
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Drives: 2003 330i, 2019 BRZ (blue, with PP)
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 44
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
It has/had a FA20. Oil cooler. heavy weight oil. slight overfill. No baffle. What other oil starvation mods were people talking about? Accusump? Dry sump? Fa20's are supposed to be pretty good about oil starvation. It's the Fa24 which doesn't like right turns.

Won't get a post-mortem until I get the swap. Probably in a few weeks. My mechanic is pretty busy right now and can't get to it right away.
gshopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2023, 10:46 PM   #7
alphasaur
friendly
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Drives: 17' 86
Location: Dutchess County, NY
Posts: 731
Thanks: 1,479
Thanked 483 Times in 293 Posts
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gshopper View Post
It has/had a FA20. Oil cooler. heavy weight oil. slight overfill. No baffle. What other oil starvation mods were people talking about? Accusump? Dry sump? Fa20's are supposed to be pretty good about oil starvation. It's the Fa24 which doesn't like right turns.

Won't get a post-mortem until I get the swap. Probably in a few weeks. My mechanic is pretty busy right now and can't get to it right away.
think tokay was being a bit cheeky saying the cause is that it is an fa20

fa20 has oiling issues. Some basic mods people do are killerB oil pickup and baffled oil pan. Who knows if it helps.

There was a guy from peru that posted some data showing the killerB pick up likely helps.
__________________
Seek comfort in discomfort.
alphasaur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2023, 10:53 PM   #8
Tokay444
Anti stance.
 
Tokay444's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Drives: 17 White 860. RCE Tarmac 2. RE-71RS
Location: Not Canada
Posts: 1,689
Thanks: 915
Thanked 988 Times in 564 Posts
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I’m not understanding the F20 reference then.
Tokay444 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2023, 11:37 PM   #9
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: Crapcan
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,302
Thanks: 18,443
Thanked 16,502 Times in 7,476 Posts
Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by gshopper View Post
It has/had a FA20. Oil cooler. heavy weight oil. slight overfill. No baffle. What other oil starvation mods were people talking about? Accusump? Dry sump? Fa20's are supposed to be pretty good about oil starvation. It's the Fa24 which doesn't like right turns.

Won't get a post-mortem until I get the swap. Probably in a few weeks. My mechanic is pretty busy right now and can't get to it right away.
The FA20 still has oil starve issues. I'd be a lot more concerned if I was boosted but I have seen low enough numbers that it is concerning though I haven't lost an engine to it yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphasaur View Post
think tokay was being a bit cheeky saying the cause is that it is an fa20

fa20 has oiling issues. Some basic mods people do are killerB oil pickup and baffled oil pan. Who knows if it helps.

There was a guy from peru that posted some data showing the killerB pick up likely helps.
I saw a negligible difference with a baffle. I have a 2qt accusump I will be installing this winter. The guy from Peru did a lot more then install the killer B pickup. He ported the oil passages. solidsnake11 also did a lot of oiling mods, you can still find some of his posts that he didn't delete.
__________________
"Experience is the hardest kind of teacher. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterward." -Oscar Wilde.
NoHaveMSG is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to NoHaveMSG For This Useful Post:
alphasaur (10-26-2023)
Old 10-25-2023, 09:39 AM   #10
Grady
Senior Member
 
Grady's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Drives: BRZ Yellow, 2019 Ranger, 2011 Evora
Location: Dallas
Posts: 1,700
Thanks: 354
Thanked 1,485 Times in 779 Posts
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by gshopper View Post
It has/had a FA20. Oil cooler. heavy weight oil. slight overfill. No baffle. What other oil starvation mods were people talking about? Accusump? Dry sump? Fa20's are supposed to be pretty good about oil starvation. It's the Fa24 which doesn't like right turns.

Won't get a post-mortem until I get the swap. Probably in a few weeks. My mechanic is pretty busy right now and can't get to it right away.
What are you oil temps coming off the track? What oil are you running?
Grady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2023, 11:13 PM   #11
gshopper
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Drives: 2003 330i, 2019 BRZ (blue, with PP)
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 44
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
5W30 or 0W40. Oil temps always below 235.
gshopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2023, 04:00 PM   #12
softail
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2023
Drives: GT86 2013 E85
Location: France
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Had this engine been opened and the RTV gaskets redone?
softail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2023, 04:05 PM   #13
gshopper
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Drives: 2003 330i, 2019 BRZ (blue, with PP)
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 44
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Nope.
gshopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2023, 11:26 PM   #14
whataboutbob
AutoX-10/10ths every run
 
whataboutbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: 2013 Scion FR-S AT Firestorm
Location: San Marcos, CA, USA
Posts: 2,582
Thanks: 4,772
Thanked 1,859 Times in 1,013 Posts
Mentioned: 79 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
FA20s are fine, until they are not. Speaking from experience. My experience has been varied. On motor #3.
whataboutbob is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to whataboutbob For This Useful Post:
NoHaveMSG (11-15-2023)
 
Reply

Tags
e85 flexfuel, engine failure, fa20 engine, tune, tuning

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Questions about ethanol levels, tunes, and flex fuel sensors DigitalVeil92 Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum 8 08-24-2020 11:52 PM
OFT Tunes BasicBlackBRZ Software Tuning 1 12-31-2019 08:56 AM
Correct my understanding of shop tunes and off-shelf tunes Lakitu Software Tuning 10 09-08-2019 05:50 AM
tunes John27 Software Tuning 3 04-18-2018 09:46 PM
Custom Az Tunes Juggles Arizona 13 11-08-2014 11:15 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.