Tein Flex Z Problems

[zussypoo]

I just installed the new Tein Flex Z coilovers about 2 weeks ago. After 2 alignments the front camber is at -1.6 on both sides, caster 6.0 left, 5.5 right, toe 0.04 on both fronts. The car is pulling/drifting towards the right significantly. Is there any way to remedy the caster problem? The alignment guy said there were no instructions on adjusting the vehicle's front caster. I did have an accident less than a year ago, but the Buddy Club Racing Spec coilovers and stock suspension on the car post-accident repair were both never pulling to one side like right now after the Tein Flex Z install.
In addition, I'm getting a lot of creaking over bumps now in the front right, the left has a bit of noise too but I cannot be sure. I did have a whiteline sway bar + endlinks installed in the front.

What should the steps be for me to take in fixing these problems? Any response is appreciated.

Update: Got a new steering assembly, steering feels more consistent between turning left and right now. The alignment shop this time double checked and verified that the steering wheel is centered as least on the machine. Car is still drifting to the right. If the steering wheel is tilted slightly to the left it no longer drifts right as quickly or just does not drift altogether. I'm thinking this may be the coilover's problem as the previous set of Buddy Club Racing Spec coilovers did not encounter this issue ever.

Update 2:
Got new front passenger lower control arms and bushings and had the car realigned. Alignment specs will be attached below. The car is STILL pulling/drifting to the right. I pretty much narrowed down the following options or steps to continue figuring this out:
-Could be coilovers, but Tein is of absolutely no help so far and refuse to acknowledge it may be a faulty part.
-The bolt on the swaybar mount connecting to the sway bars was hard to put back in, and it could be the subframe slightly tweaked since the car had damage primarily on the wheel, front of the fender, and the bumper from the side to where the crash beam starts since I believe the subframe sits right behind that intersection of fender and bumper? The insurance company refused to pay for a laser frame machine setup for diagnosis of frame damage due to the damage being impossible to have subframe damage, or so they say.
-More steering assembly issues, or some kind of steering sensor/positioning needs to be reset, as the steering wheel tilted slightly to the left will cause the car to drive mostly straight.
I'm getting tired of paying out of pockets for alignments constantly, and a lifetime alignment at Firestone isn't going to solve the problem since I do have to get it to other shops to get a second opinion or to verify it is not a machine calibration issue at these alignment shops. If anyone has any other good ideas please feel free to contribute.

Update 3: Took the coilovers off but still kept the Whiteline sway bars. Got an alignment and everything was normal again. Car not pulling to the right unless road is severely crowned. Looks like it is the Tein Flex-Z's problems after all as the installation was checked multiple times by 5+ shops and various people. Alignment was also done a grand total of 6 times including the most recent one. I'm in contact with fteightysix now but it looks like they are going to present it to Tein and see what they say.
Picture of the current alignment specs:
http://i.imgur.com/ESRLfKn.jpg

[lukey86]

Originally Posted by zussypoo

I just installed the new Tein Flex Z coilovers about 2 weeks ago. After 2 alignments the front camber is at -1.6 on both sides, caster 6.0 left, 5.5 right, toe 0.04 on both fronts. The car is pulling/drifting towards the right significantly. Is there any way to remedy the caster problem? The alignment guy said there were no instructions on adjusting the vehicle's front caster. I did have an accident less than a year ago, but the Buddy Club Racing Spec coilovers and stock suspension on the car post-accident repair were both never pulling to one side like right now after the Tein Flex Z install.
In addition, I'm getting a lot of creaking over bumps now in the front right, the left has a bit of noise too but I cannot be sure. I did have a whiteline sway bar + endlinks installed in the front.

What should the steps be for me to take in fixing these problems? Any response is appreciated.

If your alignment guy needs instructions to adjust components on such a popular suspension type then you need a new guy! I've never had anyone tell me they can't do something because of a lack of instuctions, thet's just ludicrous. Alot ofthe time creaking can be just new springs wearing in and can go away after a while. If you're lowered and using oem endlinks it could be the swaybar too

[zussypoo]

Originally Posted by lukey86

If your alignment guy needs instructions to adjust components on such a popular suspension type then you need a new guy! I've never had anyone tell me they can't do something because of a lack of instuctions, thet's just ludicrous. Alot ofthe time creaking can be just new springs wearing in and can go away after a while. If you're lowered and using oem endlinks it could be the swaybar too

Endlinks are whiteline as well. Came in a package. I assume the bushing is whiteline as well and not OEM but I didn't do the install. Well how would caster be adjusted on these then? The caster was significantly off after installation of the Flex Zs and I think a quick research shows that the fronts are caster adjustable but I can't find instructions anywhere.

[thunderlights]

I was told by my alignment guy who is an 86 owner that the car isnt caster adjustsble without caster adjustable top mounts. Thats why my caster is off 0.9 degrees. Now im not sure anymore

Sent from my SM-G850W using Tapatalk

[Dembo]

Did you torque everything at the correct ride height? Are the endlinks adjusted to the same length? Are the top mounts in the right way round?

You can't adjust caster without adding extra bits.

[renfield90]

Front caster is not adjustable without adjustable top mounts.

OP, I would double check for brake drag on the front right. Sometimes when replacing wheels the rotor will wiggle ever so slightly out of place and not get put back correctly when the wheels get mounted. When in doubt I remove the wheel, manually position the rotor where I think it belongs, then press the brake pedal to let the caliper center the rotor, then mount the wheels.

Barring that consider using someone else's alignment machine to verify toe.

[kbye]

Probably just a bad alignment, he might have locked in your toe while your steering wheel was not completely straight. Caster is not your issue, and the difference isn't enough to worry too much about.

[zussypoo]

Originally Posted by thunderlights

I was told by my alignment guy who is an 86 owner that the car isnt caster adjustsble without caster adjustable top mounts. Thats why my caster is off 0.9 degrees. Now im not sure anymore

Sent from my SM-G850W using Tapatalk

I believe the Tein Flex Zs are caster adjustable in the front, and that's why I'm looking for any clues as to how to see if adjusting the caster will remedy the pulling/drifting to the right issue.

Originally Posted by Dembo

Did you torque everything at the correct ride height? Are the endlinks adjusted to the same length? Are the top mounts in the right way round?

You can't adjust caster without adding extra bits.

How would I go about adjusting the endlinks? I know it's probably best to just reinstall the sway bars since the ride height was changed to a higher setting than the previous set of coilovers. The top mounts are definitely installed correctly. On rallysportdirect it did say that the Flex Zs are front caster adjustable.

Originally Posted by renfield90

Front caster is not adjustable without adjustable top mounts.

OP, I would double check for brake drag on the front right. Sometimes when replacing wheels the rotor will wiggle ever so slightly out of place and not get put back correctly when the wheels get mounted. When in doubt I remove the wheel, manually position the rotor where I think it belongs, then press the brake pedal to let the caliper center the rotor, then mount the wheels.

Barring that consider using someone else's alignment machine to verify toe.

I will look into the possibility of brake drag. How would toe throw off caster though? Toe was adjusted to 0.04 on both sides.

Originally Posted by kbye

Probably just a bad alignment, he might have locked in your toe while your steering wheel was not completely straight. Caster is not your issue, and the difference isn't enough to worry too much about.

That is a good point as well. Post-install pre-alignment the car was already drifting to the right, post-alignment it was significantly worse. I had it aligned a second time while I watched the whole thing and it is still going towards the right, but less so than post-1st alignment. Isn't a variation of caster the cause for the car to drift towards the side with the lower caster number?


Thanks to everyone's responses. From the looks of it I'll just have to keep searching until I can find a shop that can do real alignments....which I can't find any in Tucson, AZ.

[Ashikabi]

I don't think caster is the problem. Sounds like brake or toe problems. Double check alignment. Endlinks should adjust just like a tie rod... loosen locking nuts, turn barrel, tighten nuts

[kbye]

Originally Posted by zussypoo

Isn't a variation of caster the cause for the car to drift towards the side with the lower caster number?

Yes that is correct however with a half degree of variance it shouldn't play that big of a factor, the factory recommended variance is 0.5 deg or less.
Also while caster is not factory-adjustable, it can be affected by ride height, so might be worth checking your height balance for good measure... that's why it's important to find a good alignment shop. Once your suspension geometry changes, caster/camber/toe change as well.

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by zussypoo

I will look into the possibility of brake drag. How would toe throw off caster though? Toe was adjusted to 0.04 on both sides.

Caster is not your problem at all, large differences between left and right caster are fine and will not cause an issue when driving in a straight line. Toe probably is your problem - especially if you let go of your steering wheel and can see it shift right.

If the steering wheel isn't perfectly straight when your guy adjusts toe, you will have incorrect toe regardless of what the computer says. Hence why I'm suggesting you find a second alignment shop to double check in case your guy consistently makes the same mistake or his computer is off.

Strongly recommend you post up on the Tucson autocross forums (http://www.azsolo.com/forums/index.php?showforum=10) to find where the locals in the know take their cars for alignment. I can recommend a couple places but they're all close to me.

If alignment is confirmed good (including rear toe), things to check would be wheel bearing, lower control arm to chassis mounting points, and lower control arm to hub mounting point.

[renfield90]

I spotted in the AZ section thread that you're willing to come to Phoenix so I have a shop I can recommend:

Network Automotive
1021 N. Gilbert Rd. # 108
Gilbert, AZ 85234
phone: 480.539.8277

Note that there are other Network Automotive and Network Alignment places in the valley. Do NOT go to those.

[zussypoo]

Originally Posted by kbye

Yes that is correct however with a half degree of variance it shouldn't play that big of a factor, the factory recommended variance is 0.5 deg or less.
Also while caster is not factory-adjustable, it can be affected by ride height, so might be worth checking your height balance for good measure... that's why it's important to find a good alignment shop. Once your suspension geometry changes, caster/camber/toe change as well.

I did not think of the ride height being mismatched. Will double check that.

Originally Posted by renfield90

Caster is not your problem at all, large differences between left and right caster are fine and will not cause an issue when driving in a straight line. Toe probably is your problem - especially if you let go of your steering wheel and can see it shift right.



If the steering wheel isn't perfectly straight when your guy adjusts toe, you will have incorrect toe regardless of what the computer says. Hence why I'm suggesting you find a second alignment shop to double check in case your guy consistently makes the same mistake or his computer is off.



Strongly recommend you post up on the Tucson autocross forums (http://www.azsolo.com/forums/index.php?showforum=10) to find where the locals in the know take their cars for alignment. I can recommend a couple places but they're all close to me.



If alignment is confirmed good (including rear toe), things to check would be wheel bearing, lower control arm to chassis mounting points, and lower control arm to hub mounting point.

I just wanna clarify that I think driving around the steering wheel itself isn't pulling to the right, but the car is. As a result I always have the steering wheel tilted slightly to the left while going straight.

The second alignment was done by a shop different from the first, and they readjusted toe, but it seems like the wheel was once again misaligned.

Thanks for the checklist. I will look into those.

[kbye]

Originally Posted by zussypoo

I just wanna clarify that I think driving around the steering wheel itself isn't pulling to the right, but the car is. As a result I always have the steering wheel tilted slightly to the left while going straight.

Yep that's a typical symptom of when an alignment is locked in while the steering wheel is not straight. Hopefully you have better luck with the next shop.