Subwoofer now available

[mikeTee]

Not sure if this has been answered before, but does the factory headunit even support a subwoofer? From everyone's comments, it seems like it's piggybacking off of the front speakers... and if it is piggybacking, this is not worth $500 - at least the way it's installed.

[Admiral Ballsy]

Originally Posted by mikeTee

From everyone's comments, it seems like it's piggybacking off of the front speakers... and if it is piggybacking, this is not worth $500 - at least the way it's installed.

This is correct, and AFAICT there is no dedicated sub output. The only connector on the thing that's not been traced completely is the 16-pin that has the RV camera contact.

In any case, there certainly isn't any way to control level on one - no 'hidden menu' that supports such a thing.

Whether it's worth $500, I dunno. It's a neat, clean installation, takes up very little room, and is more than powerful enough to suit me. Properly tweaked, it's the best stock system I've ever owned, and one of the best I've heard. The caveat is the tweaking, and it's pretty much necessary every time the source material changes.

[mikeTee]

Originally Posted by Admiral Ballsy

This is correct, and AFAICT there is no dedicated sub output. The only connector on the thing that's not been traced completely is the 16-pin that has the RV camera contact.

In any case, there certainly isn't any way to control level on one - no 'hidden menu' that supports such a thing.

Whether it's worth $500, I dunno. It's a neat, clean installation, takes up very little room, and is more than powerful enough to suit me. Properly tweaked, it's the best stock system I've ever owned, and one of the best I've heard. The caveat is the tweaking, and it's pretty much necessary every time the source material changes.

This whole subwoofer issue is making me confused.

Firstly, as we know, the factory headunit lacks RCA outputs. This means as an "OEM" subwoofer, the subwoofer must also by logic not run off of RCA outputs, meaning as some people pointed out, must tap into some other sound source i.e. Front left / Front right / Rear left / Rear right. This also potentially poses a problem in the case that anyone wants to reuse this subwoofer with any aftermarket headunits - especially with all (4?) these crossover things going on. Quoted from another thread:

My understanding is the stock crossover in the BRZ (not sure about the FR-S) has filters set to send most of the bass to the 6.5" door woofers and some folks mentioned they did not get the most out of a sub until they used a multichannel amp/different crossovers and defeated the local crossovers. There is no easy way to default the current crossover settings in the head unit. I am not sure as I am replacing my stock speakers, and adding a 5 channel amp to power them and will use new crossovers.

Secondly, we also know power is not the issue as supposedly the subwoofer quote "overwhelms" other audio frequencies. Though I don't know where it taps in for power, AFAIK this subwoofer is a powered sub with an amp built in the housing. This worries me because the developers of this sub obviously knew exactly what was going on as far as the outputs on the factory head unit, which more than likely explains the year long delay for it's release. Though I hate to admit it, more than likely, the output with the factory setup is as good as it's gonna get. I'm also assuming it works in conjunction with the factory amp which is good/bad?

Lastly, as far as comparing it to OEM Audio +... Where do they tap in for their audio source? I know that they have their own dedicated amp in lieu of the factory amp and they also have a custom harness that does not use RCA connections as it's being installed in BRZ's and FRS's without the BeSpoke unit which I assume means it relies on FL, FR, RL, RR. This is what gives me hope that there is a way to get decent sound out of this OEM sub.

Please correct me if I'm wrong in any of my statements, and if you have any information please chime in because I would love to have an affordable subwoofer option that doesn't sound half-baked.

Lastly,

[Admiral Ballsy]

You might be overthinking it. The harness and amp, I'm 95% sure, are common to several units Stillwater makes for Fujitsu-equipped Subarus. You can see enough threads on WRX sites to see that their unit is identical except for the box itself. That would mean that any changes to 'EQ' this thing for the BRZ specifically would have to be done in the amp, which seems rather unlikely to me.

The head unit appears to send full-range to the front, and a very high-passed signal to the rear. That's probably why the Impreza unit carries a different part number; I suspect its rear output might be different.

Since the front is the only full-range source available, I can see why that's where they tapped. And they probably feel like they "did the best they could" with the level-setting; it's not bad with every source. With CD/USB audio, it's actually pretty good. With XM, it's maybe even a little weak as (IME at least) sat radio tends to be rather 'thin' sounding.

But with FM radio and the massive compression and low-end emphasis most stations seem to be using, it's overwhelming.

So even if it had a level control, I'd probably still be playing with it all the time.

I listen to NPR on my commute. It's fine for that (and it should be, right? It's just people talking). But when the feed switches from national to the public affiliate, the bass kicks in and drowns everything else out. So the local is doing some kind of signal processing.

[4azcats]

I listen primarily to my IPod through the USB input-a lot of the older music (80s and 90s) sounds good and the subwoofer adds some needed bass. But much of the newer music, especially dance/electronic has a lot more bass and even with the SVC (source volume control) turned down to -10 (lowest setting) and the EQ set with the 2 lowest frequencies all the way down, the songs are barely tolerable to hear and the rear window vibrates excessively. Hoping someone can come up with an idea to reduce the bass-I don't know if a different head unit would help but I don't want to put any more money in the audio system right now.

[go2brz]

Yes it is bass heavy in flat settings, especially from the Sirius radio. I think that as the previous poster alluded, the fader control combined with a about three different EQ settings, allows you to adjust for different sources and especially newer bass heavy recordings. Once I have the setting right for the source, I seldom have to adjust the tone setting until I change sources. I have been dealing with have to EQ and process sound signal in home stereos for a long time, so I don't find it difficult at all. But you do have to figure out the proper settings for each source you use and remember them.
Personally I listen to my own music from a USB or sometimes Sirius. I have less "overbass" problems with it sourced from USB then i do from SAT or HD Radio.
I have an many thousands invested in my home stereo and surround processor dual system. (Dedicated Stereo speakers for music and a fantastic 7.2 speaker system for video and movies) If I wanted to try to reproduce that in my BRZ I don't find it to be worth the money. So I went for the factory option on the car. I find that most cars do not tend to make a very high quality acoustic space for music, so why spend all that moeny just for the time that you are in your car and when you get home you realize that it really may have nice quality but it cannot hold a candle to your home system. I will take that money and put it into something that gives me more return or value for my money.

[bucket]

Originally Posted by 4azcats

I had my local Subaru dealer install the 10 inch Kicker subwoofer 2 days ago. My experience, like go2brz's, is that it is an improvement, but now the bass seems to overwhelm the other frequencies, especially on newer songs that have a lot of bass. I like the music to sound crisp with good highs and some bass, but I am not interested in being heard 2 blocks away! I typically listen to an IPod/IPhone through the USB port. I have turned the lower frequencies on the EQ (100 and 160 Hz) down all the way and that helps somewhat. Also discovered that the subwoofer is in the front of the car, using the fader controls, so turning the fader back to the R2 or R3 setting on the fader helps decrease the bass. I may have go with 2-3 different EQ settings and switch from song to song, but that gets to be tedious.

Not sure what else I can do using the EQ and other settings on the stock head unit. I know there are some suggested EQ settings on this site and others but those appear to be for the factory system without the subwoofer. I don't plan on upgrading the stereo further and the addition of the subwoofer does definitely decrease the door rattle from the front door speakers. Any ideas for tuning things up further would be appreciated. Interested in hearing from anyone who has had the Kicker accessory sub added.

By the way, the installed cost of the Kicker sub was 773 (599 for the sub, 115 labor and about 50 tax). Only 1 Subaru dealer in my town so no chance to shop around.

I agree that the bass overwhelms all other frequencies. I think I like it better without the sub though. Some channels on XM are now completely unlistenable. Maybe I'm missing a gain or setting somewhere, but I think anybody who says that this subwoofer completes the system have to be deaf. After driving for 1/2 hour with the volume around 15 - 18 and all of the bass frequencies turned down, my ears are ringing. No more door rattle though.

[crash.1340]

Originally Posted by Opie

The Kicker subs for the Impreza & BRZ have a gain adjustment on the built in amp, right next to where the harness plugs in.

That may be all well and good but the gain knob is not something you should ever touch once the amp is installed, set it properly and forget it ever exists.

Subaru should be enabling a separate subwoofer control option and a unit like this should actually have a separate socket on the back of the HU with a jumper in the plug/harness to enable the option. Oh, and it should also have separate power wires.

I have learned simply from experimentation that companies like to use too-small wiring. Case in point, a 55W HID kit I ordered from DDM Tuning. Their relay harness featured an 18 AWG power wire and 18 AWG ground. Neither of which are truly designed to handle the power the system was drawing, and as such it melted the main power wire and almost caught the fuse on fire. I assembled my own relay harness using 14 AWG and 16 AWG wiring, both of which utilized thicker stranding, and voila! No fires. Each headlight has its own relay and 15A fuse versus them sharing a 20A. They also warm up much faster and turn out to be a tad brigher to boot.

I've seen the OEMAudio400+ system and for the amount of power it supposedly pushes, they have separate power wires (which are a size too thin for my tastes). That's proper. I just have yet to hear one in action.

/endrant

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by go2brz

OK, The factory "Kicker" Subwoofer and built in amp with system crossover has been installed!!

The results: Fantastic!!

I am an audiophile and need my car to have a complete system that meets at least certain criteria. Before the subwoofer, the sound of the system had some quality but was incomplete and unsatisfactory. The new Kicker factory system adds a very nice 10inch Kicker subwoofer w/built in bass amp. The Kicker puts out all the bass that anyone could need (some might desire more, but it would just make the car shake even more than it does now, along with your inner organs....)
The key is the crossover in the wiring that makes all of the speakers sound better as they are only trying to do what they were designed to do, and not trying to replicate the entire frequency range. The EQ in the factory unit now actually has "real" control over the frequencies and is much more usable with good results than before.

I tested Hip-Hop, Jazz, and rock at the dealer with the service tech (who also owns a BRZ but has not modified the stereo yet). He felt that it truly completed the stereo system and he is now interested in buying one. Personally I am highly satisfied. What you get for the price is excellent value.

I looked over the OEM Audio 400. It is obviously a good system. My only comment that would be I spent only $621.00 on the Kicker and that includes full installation. The OEM unit is $1200.00 before installation. It is doubtful that the OEM system is worth 800.00 to 1,000.000 more (depending on installation costs plus delivery costs) than the Kicker factory unit. But everyone is different, and we all have different criteria levels that must be met. I would not tell anyone what they should get, but just want to make sure that everyone has the necessary info to make a good decision on how best to improve their BRZ sound system.

Originally Posted by go2brz

Yes it is bass heavy in flat settings, especially from the Sirius radio. I think that as the previous poster alluded, the fader control combined with a about three different EQ settings, allows you to adjust for different sources and especially newer bass heavy recordings. Once I have the setting right for the source, I seldom have to adjust the tone setting until I change sources. I have been dealing with have to EQ and process sound signal in home stereos for a long time, so I don't find it difficult at all. But you do have to figure out the proper settings for each source you use and remember them.
Personally I listen to my own music from a USB or sometimes Sirius. I have less "overbass" problems with it sourced from USB then i do from SAT or HD Radio.
I have an many thousands invested in my home stereo and surround processor dual system. (Dedicated Stereo speakers for music and a fantastic 7.2 speaker system for video and movies) If I wanted to try to reproduce that in my BRZ I don't find it to be worth the money. So I went for the factory option on the car. I find that most cars do not tend to make a very high quality acoustic space for music, so why spend all that moeny just for the time that you are in your car and when you get home you realize that it really may have nice quality but it cannot hold a candle to your home system. I will take that money and put it into something that gives me more return or value for my money.

quoted together because they ought to be together. by stating you're an audiophile, you're implying that you will go to significant lengths to get the best sound possible in the environment you're in. for instance, the audiophiles i've known, without thinking, will spend $2,500 on rca cables because they appear to change something in the sound, or add $500 rare wood blocks to keep the rca cables elevated to reportedly get rid of noise from surrounding sources.. by keeping/maintaining the stock sound system, i feel that statement reinforces the idea that the sound system is 'audiophile grade'.

but in the next post, you clearly state that is not the case at all, and you are simply making a run for 'acceptable' audio in your car, because as you said, it's not a worthwhile investment to try to improve it.

imo, those two things are a serious contradiction of terms. obviously you are settling for a lower audio experience in the car, and under those terms, the upgraded subwoofer is meets the relative standard you've set, which the first review implies that it is still an audiophile's dream of a sound system, but under the new terms of, it no longer implies that the sound system is audiophile grade, as had been implied by your original review.

i also don't like that the original review lacks any specific detail on the test tracks used, or how the additional equipment improved those specific test tracks.. again, i feel making the statement that you're an audiophile, the differences would have been easy to note, to further enforce the positive aspect of the review, and also lending an easy repeatability test for any of those interested in hearing the differences you mentioned.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by crash.1340

That may be all well and good but the gain knob is not something you should ever touch once the amp is installed, set it properly and forget it ever exists.

that might be the case for those that listen to only one band, but as someone who can jump from listening to country to dance to classical, i have never been able to leave my sub level adjustment alone. in some cases, it is personal preference, but in most it is due to the ideals that the producer of the album had in mind when recording the tracks.

[Prog]

How hard is it to take the sub out once it's installed, in case you need to get to the spare or something else under the trunk mat?

[Admiral Ballsy]

Takes about thirty seconds. Unscrew two threaded knobs (cue Beavis and Butthead), undo the connector, and lift it out.

Shameless commercial plug - I'm selling mine (in the classifieds section); I'm selling the car and parting out accessories, it's not that I don't like it.

[crash.1340]

Originally Posted by soundman98

that might be the case for those that listen to only one band, but as someone who can jump from listening to country to dance to classical, i have never been able to leave my sub level adjustment alone. in some cases, it is personal preference, but in most it is due to the ideals that the producer of the album had in mind when recording the tracks.

Bass level adjustment can be messed with, the actual gain knob on the amp should never be touched once set right. This is why I think Subaru should program a sub level control into the head unit.

[Admiral Ballsy]

Originally Posted by crash.1340

Bass level adjustment can be messed with, the actual gain knob on the amp should never be touched once set right.

There is no gain knob on the amp. Or in the amp.