Next Gen BRZ/86!

[Bristecom]

Originally Posted by bkharmony

Between the two of you, we've got an engine designer and a corporate strategist. I'm certain Toyota and Subaru never conceived of the things you're bringing to the table. We'll put you both in touch immediately to sort out what the resources of two giant car-makers couldn't.

Obviously the 2.0L was decided due to tax reasons in some countries and also slightly lower costs in achieving a higher redline and the lack of a multi-stage intake also lowers cost and complexity a bit but I still think it would have been a worthy trade off, especially for the American market because it's not that much more costly or complex and would have likely impressed more drivers, which would have led to more sales. But oh well, maybe next time.

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Even if Subaru were on their own for the new BRZ, which doesn't appear that way, the BRZ shares a TON of parts with the WRX. All the new Subaru engines are based off the FA20 architecture in the twins. The chassis is basically a 2wd WRX. aftermarket sway bars and control arms swap between the 2. The only bespoke things to the twins are the sheet metal, gearbox, and interior.

Even this year the BRZ/86 sales numbers keep up closely with the Miata, which is a younger car. I'm not buying the 'nobody is buying the twins' narrative. Sure the volume isn't high, but it's respectable for the type of car. My dealers (both Toyota and Subaru) don't have any sitting on the lot for more than a week, and good luck finding a used one around here that sits for that long.

I'll certainly accept that there is parts sharing between the WRX and BRZ. From a corporate perspective, that makes a lot of financial sense and could be the basis for future development apart from Toyota.

You are right about the sales numbers, but the difference is that the Miata uses far more parts from the other Mazda cars than the BRZ/86. The engine and transmission from the Miata is used in the Mazda 6 and 3 as is the steering, brakes, and infotainment systems. The Miata is used as the corporate performance brand and contributes to the overall brand ID while the Subaru brand ID is more related to 4 wheel drive and safety. This category, as a whole, in order to be supported by a profit making venture, needs to provide more to the corporation than its volume would dictate. But then again, I'm talking about corporate management theory here and not necessarily about inside information I don't have. So we'll see.

I'm still buying the BRZ because it is a very good car that fits my psychological needs. I like the way it drives. I like the way it looks. It is a boatload of fun. And it brings me back to my illogical love of true sports cars. Now take that!!!!

[Tcoat]

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...58#post3068358

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by rvoll

You are right about the sales numbers, but the difference is that the Miata uses far more parts from the other Mazda cars than the BRZ/86. The engine and transmission from the Miata is used in the Mazda 6 and 3

I kinda doubt that the Miata uses the same transmission as the 3 and 6...

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by rvoll

I'll certainly accept that there is parts sharing between the WRX and BRZ. From a corporate perspective, that makes a lot of financial sense and could be the basis for future development apart from Toyota.

You are right about the sales numbers, but the difference is that the Miata uses far more parts from the other Mazda cars than the BRZ/86. The engine and transmission from the Miata is used in the Mazda 6 and 3 as is the steering, brakes, and infotainment systems. The Miata is used as the corporate performance brand and contributes to the overall brand ID while the Subaru brand ID is more related to 4 wheel drive and safety. This category, as a whole, in order to be supported by a profit making venture, needs to provide more to the corporation than its volume would dictate. But then again, I'm talking about corporate management theory here and not necessarily about inside information I don't have. So we'll see.

I'm still buying the BRZ because it is a very good car that fits my psychological needs. I like the way it drives. I like the way it looks. It is a boatload of fun. And it brings me back to my illogical love of true sports cars. Now take that!!!!

It does not matter what Subaru parts were shared in the past. The 2017 Impreza is built on the platform that the whole Subaru line up will be using by 2020. That is an actual statement by Subaru on the real Subaru website. This will mean that either the BRZ will transfer to that platform or die. If it gets the 2.4 engine and changes to that platform it will be a whole different car than it is now and will be a BRZ in name only.


Sales numbers are meaningless in these cars. They said right from the start they were not looking to sell piles of them. They plan what they want to make and sell them all and that is all they care about. They were never looking for "appliance" vehicle sales numbers on these so are not disappointed that they didn't get them. Unless somebody can show pictures of fields full of built but unsold (a la Pontiac Aztecs) cars then we have to assume they don't care about the numbers.

[jeffchap]

Forget a 2.4l boxer. Why can't we just get the FA20F they're already putting into the WRX?

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...58#post3068358

A little rabbit told me last Sunday that Santa Claus started working on a new sled due out in 2021. The fact that these development projects almost always take a lot longer than expected is not important.... Rumor has it that the sled has a lower center of gravity (but still flies) and wider runners. We're now up to 16 reindeer and better reins for more accurate control.

[spike021]

Originally Posted by jeffchap

Forget a 2.4l boxer. Why can't we just get the FA20T they're already putting into the WRX?

Pretty sure it doesn't fit properly in our engine bay.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by rvoll

A little rabbit told me last Sunday that Santa Claus started working on a new sled due out in 2021. The fact that these development projects almost always take a lot longer than expected is not important.... Rumor has it that the sled has a lower center of gravity (but still flies) and wider runners. We're now up to 16 reindeer and better reins for more accurate control.

And carbon fiber bells for weight reduction!

[jeffchap]

Originally Posted by spike021

Pretty sure it doesn't fit properly in our engine bay.

Quite a few aftermarket companies have managed to make it work. They could start by eliminating the stupid sound generator, as I did.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by jeffchap

Forget a 2.4l boxer. Why can't we just get the FA20T they're already putting into the WRX?

Because they set out to build an NA car.
They asked people what they wanted and they said NA.
They never pretend, implied, insinuated, hinted or any thing else that they would ever have anything but an NA.

[Yoshoobaroo]

The Miata really doesn't share much with the other Mazdas besides the engine, and even then they're as different as the FA20D and FA20F.
The tranny is longitudinal, all other Mazdas are FWD
The Miata is the only one apart from the Mazda2 with 4 lug hubs, so the brakes are bespoke
The Miata is the only one with double A arms all around. Bespoke suspension
Steering is unique cause it's the only one that's got front steering hubs.

The BRZ shares much more important bits (most importantly for cost and scaling: the chassis) with the WRX than the Miata does with any current Mazda. Taking the 4WD out is trivial when you're using a different gearbox anyway.

Originally Posted by rvoll

I'm still buying the BRZ because it is a very good car that fits my psychological needs. I like the way it drives. I like the way it looks. It is a boatload of fun. And it brings me back to my illogical love of true sports cars. Now take that!!!!

Completely agree there. The BRZ isn't for many people, but boy does it fit my personality in a car. And I'm so happy that it looks like it will live on.

[jeffchap]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Because they set out to build an NA car.
They asked people what they wanted and they said NA.
They never pretend, implied, insinuated, hinted or any thing else that they would ever have anything but an NA.

So basically, the same thing I tell my kids, ie. "Because I said so".



I have no problem with NA, in fact I prefer it. But 40-50 more NA hp and ft/lbs sure would be nice.

[trippinbillies40]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

It does not matter what Subaru parts were shared in the past. The 2017 Impreza is built on the platform that the whole Subaru line up will be using by 2020. That is an actual statement by Subaru on the real Subaru website. This will mean that either the BRZ will transfer to that platform or die. If it gets the 2.4 engine and changes to that platform it will be a whole different car than it is now and will be a BRZ in name only.


Sales numbers are meaningless in these cars. They said right from the start they were not looking to sell piles of them. They plan what they want to make and sell them all and that is all they care about. They were never looking for "appliance" vehicle sales numbers on these so are not disappointed that they didn't get them. Unless somebody can show pictures of fields full of built but unsold (a la Pontiac Aztecs) cars then we have to assume they don't care about the numbers.

I believe that's incorrect. I'm pretty sure next gen BRZ will not be on the SGP.