Turbo Twin versus Mclaren Mp4-12c

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Jaden

What kind of argument is that???

What's the alternative??? Buy a car so that you can't even afford to fuel it because your payment is so high relative to your budget???

If in that position, I'd rather take a few years to make a car exactly what I want than settle for some grocery getter that costs more and is marginally better to start with..

Jaden

speed costs money. you arent better at building cars than maclaren either. there are a bunch of videos showing how fast small aftermarket cars are compared to much bigger stock cars. they always take place on small tracks and the race car always has more tire. otherwise its not much news. its hype and shock value. the twins are great if you just want to have fun. in fact, they might be one of the best all time at that. they arent and never will be dollar for dollar or mod for mod the fastest way around a track though.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by fatoni

speed costs money. you arent better at building cars than maclaren either. there are a bunch of videos showing how fast small aftermarket cars are compared to much bigger stock cars. they always take place on small tracks and the race car always has more tire. otherwise its not much news. its hype and shock value. the twins are great if you just want to have fun. in fact, they might be one of the best all time at that. they arent and never will be dollar for dollar or mod for mod the fastest way around a track though.

Like you would know anything... Since your first day on this site all you have ever done is trash talk the Twins...lol..

Anyone who listens to anything you have to say without realizing how biased you are would have to be def dumb and blind...

Jaden

[strat61caster]

Spec Miata lap record at Laguna Seca: 1:45
Stock BRZ lap record at Laguna Seca: 1:51

Average cost of used Spec Miata: ~$10k
Since Spec Miata's have no power mods and are limited to OEM-like tire sizes there's tons of time left to be found with a turbo kit or engine swap and wider tires and you can still come in under $20k.

Why spend way more on an FR-S or BRZ when the Miata is such good bang for your buck?

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Spec Miata lap record at Laguna Seca: 1:45
Stock BRZ lap record at Laguna Seca: 1:51

Average cost of used Spec Miata: ~$10k
Since Spec Miata's have no power mods and are limited to OEM-like tire sizes there's tons of time left to be found with a turbo kit or engine swap and wider tires and you can still come in under $20k.

Why spend way more on an FR-S or BRZ when the Miata is such good bang for your buck?

new car versus ten years + old. coupe, not convert. Much prettier(yes opinion, widely held though, not just mine). I don't see many miatas with stock internals making 400+ hp on corn juice...

Jaden

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Yep Sutcliffe can definitely drive. But as you said, the McLaren is still just a road car. Apples to oranges comparison vs. a track-prepped GT86.

It's apples to oranges alright $242,000 versus $35K


Jaden

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Jaden

Like you would know anything... Since your first day on this site all you have ever done is trash talk the Twins...lol..

Anyone who listens to anything you have to say without realizing how biased you are would have to be def dumb and blind...

Jaden

you can criticize me and i dont care but plese respond to the post as well

Originally Posted by Jaden

new car versus ten years + old. coupe, not convert. Much prettier(yes opinion, widely held though, not just mine). I don't see many miatas with stock internals making 400+ hp on corn juice...

Jaden

i don tsee too many twins making four hundred hp on stock internals either. none of the other stuff you mention matters.

Originally Posted by Jaden

It's apples to oranges alright $242,000 versus $35K


Jaden

its apples to oranges enough to write off street car vs race car but not apples to oranges enough to write off ten years? silly

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Jaden

new car versus ten years + old. coupe, not convert. Much prettier(yes opinion, widely held though, not just mine). I don't see many miatas with stock internals making 400+ hp on corn juice...

Jaden

whoosh

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Jaden

If it's a repost why do I keep hearing about how 86's aren't the best bang for your buck??? How many new cars with 35K invested can keep up with a Mclaren mp4-12c on the track???

Jaden

I bet that twin can't keep up if I'm piloting the MP4...

Or, if we want to go for the coup de grace, lets add that wing that's on the twin on the MP4, and watch the BRZ just get utterly smashed.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Jaden

new car versus ten years + old. coupe, not convert. Much prettier(yes opinion, widely held though, not just mine). I don't see many miatas with stock internals making 400+ hp on corn juice...

Jaden

I don't see many FA20's on stock internals m ing 400+hp and lasting either

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I bet that twin can't keep up if I'm piloting the MP4...

Or, if we want to go for the coup de grace, lets add that wing that's on the twin on the MP4, and watch the BRZ just get utterly smashed.

Plus while the MP4 is fast, it was never really hailed as a track car. I'm reminded of Fifth Gear's head-to-head comparison test between that and the 458. The 458 had a faster lap time and was way better to drive, and they said that the MP4's electronic aids were far too intrusive to the point where it hurt the car's handling abilities in the transitions and sharp turns (as shown by the car flying off the track and into the grass along and getting spun out).

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I don't see many FA20's on stock internals m ing 400+hp and lasting either

There seems to be many that are lasting more than 30-40K miles without problems.

Also I'm talking BHP. I have always found it funny that modded cars always refer to WHP even when comparing them to stock cars that ALWAYS cite BHP.
I know why they do, I just find it funny.

Also, the twin in the video is making less than 300 to the wheels. That's easily beatable with even just a sc on corn juice...

So a Mclaren weighs ~500 lbs more and has about 200 hp more than a reliable FI twin on corn juice and don't tell me that 350 to the wheels is not reliable in a twin and on a tight track a twin doesn't even need that much to be respectable.

True, for a twin to truly be all around better than the Mclaren it would need about 450 to the wheels(and many tweaks and add ons), but come on, the regular yearly maintenance on the mclaren would cost more than a replacement short block every 9 months on the twin.

Jaden

p.s. I don't get why you consistently dog on the twins, don't you try to make money off of working on them??? Are all those people just suckers wasting their money that you are just milking?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Jaden

There seems to be many that are lasting more than 30-40K miles without problems.

Also I'm talking BHP. I have always found it funny that modded cars always refer to WHP even when comparing them to stock cars that ALWAYS cite BHP.
I know why they do, I just find it funny.

Also, the twin in the video is making less than 300 to the wheels. That's easily beatable with even just a sc on corn juice...

So a Mclaren weighs ~500 lbs more and has about 200 hp more than a reliable FI twin on corn juice and don't tell me that 350 to the wheels is not reliable in a twin and on a tight track a twin doesn't even need that much to be respectable.

True, for a twin to truly be all around better than the Mclaren it would need about 450 to the wheels(and many tweaks and add ons), but come on, the regular yearly maintenance on the mclaren would cost more than a replacement short block every 9 months on the twin.

Jaden

p.s. I don't get why you consistently dog on the twins, don't you try to make money off of working on them??? Are all those people suckers wasting their money that you are just milking?

I wouldn't consider a 400bhp FRS anywhere near reliable.

Do I make money working on twins? Absolutely not. I teach people to drive for a living.

I'm not dogging on the car. I'm being realistic. There is a reason the car costs 27k. You're asking for E9x M3/991S/Mustang Gt/C5Z/C6/Ferrari 360 horsepower out of a much, much less expensive car. You're asking for more horsepower than a STi/EVO/R32/33/34 GTR/MKIV Supra.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I wouldn't consider a 400bhp FRS anywhere near reliable.

Do I make money working on twins? Absolutely not. I teach people to drive for a living.

I'm not dogging on the car. I'm being realistic.

Ok that makes more sense then. It's because you're a honda boy... It's funny how the only people that seem to be "Realistic" about the twins are people who drive other cars...lol

I can find many examples of cars making 400bhp for tens of thousands of miles. How is that not reliable??? That's only about 340 to the wheels. Hell that's almost doable with 93...

Jaden

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Jaden

Ok that makes more sense then. It's because you're a honda boy... It's funny how the only people that seem to be "Realistic" about the twins are people who drive other cars...lol

I can find many examples of cars making 400bhp for tens of thousands of miles. How is that not reliable??? That's only about 340 to the wheels. Hell that's almost doable with 93...

Jaden

And how many of those tens of thousands of miles are actually at an output level north of 200hp? I bet not many.

340whp is NOT reliable on this platform. If you think otherwise, you're either inexperienced, uneducated, or perhaps, both.

Look at how many cars/projects are abandoned after a failure. How many owners have just disappeared with no updates to their build threads?

I've put around 80,000 miles on this platform. How many have you?