More confirmation from Toyota on next gen 86

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Riftur

I think you missed the point I was trying to make. My point was, a Veloster should not have more horsepower than an 86 since the 86 is a real sportscar. It just does not seem right. I also strongly believe the 86 should be more powerful than a miata and a civic. It does not need to be the base model but there should be a version we could buy that is. It seems every other car is getting more powerful except the 86.

It’s more powerful than the Miata, but I’m being pedantic here.

FWD cars are much cheaper to make so they can drop some more power in for the same price. Again the civic and veloster are significantly heavier. The only RWD car in its class is more expensive and stil less power. RWD comes at a cost. If that’s not worth it to you go get a hot hatch, we’ll take the sports cars.

[Stephen W.]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

Easy fix is to drop the boxer design and throw a inline 4 under the bonnet. < snip >

WRONG! Even if they laid it over on it's side to get it under the Twins hood they'd have to redesign just about everything else. Believe me, I know what's involved with swapping engines. I have extensive experience with a certain Datsun 240Z that raced in GT3 with the original in-line 6. Over time it morphed into a GT2 car powered by a NA Buick Grand National V6. The last time I saw the car only the firewall, window frames, roof and rockers were from a 240Z. Check out this 12 year old video of it leading a Dodge Viper around Mosport.


[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KPxGxUiyoQ[/ame]

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

A BMW engine could be a thing, given Supra partnership

But, to keep the car in its price bracket of "cheap car", going overboard will never happen.

You have the Supra for that, and there is no way in hell they will power up the 86 to be in a similar ball park power wise as the Supra.

Plus 90% of owners want a nice sporty looking car with good fuel economy, cheap rego and cheap insurance, handling and power really isn't a big buying point

If you want a bit more mumbo, do what I did, a AVO turbo does wonders for a little boost in power and still keep reliability

Opinions may vary

I do not understand how so many can not understand these basic points.
People want a different engine in the 86? That car exists now so go spend the cash and get one. They will never make an 86/BRZ with Supra specs at the current price point. It just isn't going to happen.

[Riftur]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Historically "sports cars" have always been lower horse power. They were always built to be small, light and nimble not powerful. This whole concept that they need huge horse power came along about the same time that cars that would never have been classed as sports started to be called that. It took the Miata almost 30 years to get a significant HP bump. Comparing others and saying "they should have less" is just playing a numbers game.
Personally I don't care how much power the others have it doesn't make them better cars.

I understanding where you are coming from, especially when you look at European sport cars historically. I do not think 200WHP is really asking for a lot. It is just increasing with the times.

[Riftur]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I do not understand how so many can not understand these basic points.
People want a different engine in the 86? That car exists now so go spend the cash and get one. They will never make an 86/BRZ with Supra specs at the current price point. It just isn't going to happen.

That's why you keep the base car the same but have a more powerful option like almost all other cars have now a days.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Riftur

I understanding where you are coming from, especially when you look at European sport cars historically. I do not think 200WHP is really asking for a lot. It is just increasing with the times.

Don't care what the HP number is. I just care how the car reacts to what it has. These cars work just fine even though they won't win drag races against Mustangs.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Riftur

That's why you keep the base car the same but have a more powerful option like almost all other cars have now a days.

Like Mustangs and Camrys that have sales of hundreds of thousands of units to keep the costs down for the 10% performance versions built? Having a base version and a high performance version of the Twins would be expensive. And AGAIN the high performance one would venture into Supra territory. They are not going to poach their own sales.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Riftur

I understanding where you are coming from, especially when you look at European sport cars historically. I do not think 200WHP is really asking for a lot. It is just increasing with the times.

200whp from a NA motor in a RWD car, with today’s emissions requirements in a <30K car IS asking for a lot actually.

People keep bringing up the S2000 but forget that it cost $32,000 in 1999! That’s $49,278 today

*Edit* oh look!

[Riftur]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

It’s more powerful than the Miata, but I’m being pedantic here.

FWD cars are much cheaper to make so they can drop some more power in for the same price. Again the civic and veloster are significantly heavier. The only RWD car in its class is more expensive and stil less power. RWD comes at a cost. If that’s not worth it to you go get a hot hatch, we’ll take the sports cars.

LOL, so asking for a slight power boost somehow means I shouldn't be driving a RWD sports car? Why is it that asking for a bit more power out of this car is so taboo for some of you people. Yet modding the car for more power is ok?

[Riftur]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

200whp from a NA motor in a RWD car, with today’s emissions requirements in a <30K car IS asking for a lot actually.

People keep bringing up the S2000 but forget that it cost $32,000 in 1999! That’s $49,278 today!

I would expect the car would sell for around 35k. Not the 30k for the base.

[Goingnowherefast]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

200whp from a NA motor in a RWD car, with today’s emissions requirements in a <30K car IS asking for a lot actually.

People keep bringing up the S2000 but forget that it cost $32,000 in 1999! That’s $49,278 today!

We do realize the base model Toyota Camry engine does this. The 2.5L makes more torque, over 200 HP, makes it's rated power on 87 octane, weighs less, revs higher (*edit* JK it does not) and I'd bet costs less. I have literally no doubt in my mind they could have made that engine work, but Subaru had to do Subaru things.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by Riftur

I think you missed the point I was trying to make. My point was, a Veloster should not have more horsepower than an 86 since the 86 is a real sportscar. It just does not seem right. I also strongly believe the 86 should be more powerful than a miata and a civic. It does not need to be the base model but there should be a version we could buy that is. It seems every other car is getting more powerful except the 86.

Is a Miata a real sports car? When has hp been the defining factor of a sports car?

[Riftur]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

Is a Miata a real sports car? When has hp been the defining factor of a sports car?

I do not consider any of the cars I mentioned as sports cars.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by Riftur

LOL, so asking for a slight power boost somehow means I shouldn't be driving a RWD sports car? Why is it that asking for a bit more power out of this car is so taboo for some of you people. Yet modding the car for more power is ok?

You're literally asking for 40 extra hp. That's a 20% increase!!