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Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain. |
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05-23-2019, 09:37 PM | #15 |
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I don't see drawback in that. Even that lesser a bit torque is more due lower gearing multiplication then more engine torque at lower rpms when upshifted, when it comes to actual torque at wheels. Also wider usable rpm range may mean less time lost at some specific track configurations, where otherwise one may loose time for short upshift and then immediate downshift prior turn .. or loose time not shifting but also not accelerating due lower redline cutoff. And, and .. i simply love how high-rpm race engines sound
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05-23-2019, 09:43 PM | #16 |
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I have a question iirc everything I read said that the wear would be on the high side of the pump, it is where the bubbles implode and wear the metal. If that is correct, your pumps erosion is on the low side. It would seem that it is building pressure on the low side before it goes into the gears. I would guess this is from squeezing oil into the gears at high speed. The little scallop on the high is to slow the pressure rise of the oil as it transitions from low to high pressure this reduces the implosion of cavatation.
Maybe the ramp on the inlet of the gear is not a great idea at high velocities. I remember reading about engineers trying to break the sound barrier and right before the engine would stall. It was discovered that the funnel to the jet turbine needed to be inverted because so much air got crammed in that the air would stall. Last edited by solidsnake11; 05-23-2019 at 10:14 PM. |
05-23-2019, 10:18 PM | #17 |
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Could you name the anaerobic sealant you used on the oil pump plates? Thanks
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05-23-2019, 11:55 PM | #18 | |
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[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZBqb0ZJSwU[/ame]
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05-24-2019, 12:36 AM | #19 |
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So what you have found is that the inlet is inadequate because sustained rpms leads to a drop in inlet pressure, and that leads to cavitation, right?
A few points of confusion: --Shouldn't cavitation lead to a more significant drop in outlet pressure if that is the cause of the oil starvation, and you showed only a small difference in outlet pressures? --If cavitation is happening then couldn't that metal debris be a cause of bearing failure? Moreover, shouldn't it show up in an engine oil test as metal in the oil? --If this is the cause of oil starvation then couldn't this be replicated on a dyno or something, meaning, if it is just sustained rpms, and not sustained lateral g's or something else commonly related to track oil starvation, then couldn't it be replicated in a static environment? Is it common for oil starvation failure to happen, for instance, during a top speed run (ie long sustained rpms)?
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05-24-2019, 06:56 AM | #20 |
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We use Permatex 51813 / Loctite 518 in all applications that have machined surfaces and less than 0.5 mm gap to seal. Great product, doesnīt leave any solid residue that can clog anything.
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05-24-2019, 07:13 AM | #21 | |
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By "good torque" in my previous post I meant "enough torque to make more power than in the next gear", maybe I shouldīve explained it better. That of course is for straight line acceleration and doesnīt apply to the situation that churchx mentions (specially in low gears) where a higher redline can save you from having to make additional gear changes. And yes, thereīs also that urge to just rev the crap out of your engine, no matter the torque or power hahaha
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05-24-2019, 07:27 AM | #22 | |
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05-24-2019, 07:31 AM | #23 | |
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What it does in the high side is kill mass flow and cause huge pressure oscillations: (again taken directly from the research cited and linked in my first post) THAT is what destroys your bearings by oil starvation.
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05-24-2019, 07:44 AM | #24 | |
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2. The ammount of aluminum it erodes is insignificant (probably less than 1.0 g). I donīt think it would show in an UOA or cause any damage. The importance of finding it is that itīs hard evidence that cavitation is happening. Iīd love to see a close up pic of that part of a brand new oil pump. 3. Yes absolutely. My bearing failures where never at the track with high lateral gīs like to think about that. They happened accelerating in a straight line, at high RPMs. It couldīve happened at the dyno, I just wasnīt there.
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05-24-2019, 08:15 AM | #25 |
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Well let me rephrase, the erosion from cavatation happens on the high side along with the heating of the fluid.
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05-24-2019, 08:19 AM | #26 |
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If someone with a mostly stock engine (boosted but stock internally) wanted to try a better pickup tube, would you recommend they look for something with a one inch OD as well, or would killer b's tube be the correct choice?
Absolutely fantastic research. Thank you so much for sharing!! |
05-24-2019, 11:05 AM | #27 |
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You mentioned it somewhat, but is it possible the 10w40 oil is also the problem?
I am running 5w30 for the simple reason that Subaru runs 5w30 in all their FI applications, and I am boosted, but I could imagine running 10w40 or 10w50 on the track. With that said, I think I would drive the car for 10-15 minutes at low speeds/rpms to get the oil to operating temperature, with the concern of starving the bearings running the high viscosity oil. There seems to be a debate these days whether higher viscosity helps to protect the bearings with a thicker layer of oil, or if it is bad. The argument is that pressures will be higher, which is good, but if oil flow rate is slowed then oil temps can creep up; thinner oil will flow faster, so it will deliver cool oil faster. Total system oil temps may not raise because the oil cooling measures post cooling could be adequate, but locally to any one part of the engine there could be a spike. Thick oil could also cause back pressure, creating resistance against restricted flow, which could be why outlet pressure is static in your chart after increasing inlet pressure. Also, you mentioned thinner oil having less problems with cavitation. Why is this the case? Intuitively, it seems like warmer oil and thinner oil would result in more bubbles.
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05-24-2019, 11:16 AM | #28 | |
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