JO2 RECALL - ENGINE FAILURE

[Bodalenko]

Originally Posted by ZZT86

Struth, it sounds like a tractor �� I very much doubt head gasket issue, that's a spun bearing as a result of oil starvation. A new engine is in order.

Subaru did stat off as tractor makers I believe. Old habits die hard.

[slumlord]

The car was serviced between 1/4-5/4. The car had done about 75k but I was also combining my 90k service at the same time.

[ZZT86]

Originally Posted by Bodalenko

Is Subaru or Toyota the bad guy here? Subaru might build the car but Toyota had a hand in the engine design and have held a 16.5% share of since July 2008.

Not a majority share holder but the only share holder apart from FHI itself and gives them a fair amount of decision making. I guess the supplier who produced the 'brittle' the springs would be a little nervous. This is probably a $50m global exercise/headache for Subaru.

It's all Subaru's fault as far as I'm concerned. They designed & built the motor, the car the whole damn thing. Toyota helped with the physical design & some engine pointers as far as I know & the D4S is obviously theirs.


This is the problem with car engineering when 2 makers are involved & 1 takes the lead for most of it, the other potentially ends up suffering at the hands of this maker, in this case Toyota. It tarnishes their reputation too. The Supra could be next.


Never been a fan of Subaru, they make ordinary cars in my opinion, using so much FIPG is a joke, which was applied by robot on the manufacturing line if I'm not mistaken.

[Bodalenko]

Regardless of whether they fix your car, which they will in the end, like me you’ll always be wary of ANY insignificant noise even if it’s not related to the recall. I’m watching my oil pressure gauge and AFR gauge as much as I watch the road at the moment!

Not only has this recall resulted in owners being put out and good engines being opened in many cases for probably no reason, it’s also rattled the confidence people once had in their cars. I’ve put off an install of a harrop twice now purely because of the reported and my own personal experiences after the recall. Where once I had no qualms about out laying the best part of $10k, apart from the usual should I or shouldn’t I do this, on my car I’m now seriously reassessing the Harrop based purely on the issues surrounding this recall..

At what point is it that the has car done enough hours or enough k’s to be 100%, or even 99% sure it’s passed the danger point?

I initially thought a new short long motor complete with new heads and springs was the answer but given even that still involves human hands to install and connect everything up I don’t know if even that is the answer now.

As soon as you factor in human involvement whether it be sealant cleaning off, sealing adding, removing the engine, or re-installing the engine you have a chance of a problem.

As a byline, When I mentioned to Harrops that the recall was taking just three days from drop off to pickup they just shook their collective heads and laughed. As far as they were concerned, and they do this shit all the time, it was at least a five day job!

Happened to be over at Essendon Honda getting the wife’s car serviced and walked across to the Nissan dealership. That brand new 370Z Nismo at just $66k drive away looked like very nice and very tempting! Might be easier just to bite the bullets and cut the losses on the 86’s.

[DandoX]

Originally Posted by Bodalenko

At what point is it that the car done enough hours or enough k’s to be 100%, or even 99% sure it’s passed the danger point?

I've been watching all the recall threads and threads on other forums and this is the basic summary answer to your question.

If something goes wrong after the recall most likely occur between 200 and 650 miles following the recall service. However reports of failures have come up slightly after 1000 miles after the recall service. Once you are over 1,500 miles following the recall I would say your 98% sure its all good.

miles after Recall service danger zone:
0-200= failure is less likely to present it self at this lower mileage
200-650= most common failure if something went wrong from the recall
650-1000= less likely but not out of the woods yet
1000-1,500= unlikely any problems from the recall will occur
1,500+ = your as out of the woods as you can be following the recall service

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by Bodalenko

Regardless of whether they fix your car, which they will in the end, like me you’ll always be wary of ANY insignificant noise even if it’s not related to the recall. I’m watching my oil pressure gauge and AFR gauge as much as I watch the road at the moment!

Not only has this recall resulted in owners being put out and good engines being opened in many cases for probably no reason, it’s also rattled the confidence people once had in their cars. I’ve put off an install of a harrop twice now purely because of the reported and personal experience after the recall. Where once I had no qualms about out laying the best part of $10k, apart from the usual should I or shouldn’t I do this, on my car I’m now seriously reassessing the Harrop based purely on the issues surrounding this recall..

At what point is it that the car done enough hours or enough k’s to be 100%, or even 99% sure it’s passed the danger point?

I initially thought a new short long motor complete with new heads and springs was the answer but given even that still involves human hands to install and connect everything up I don’t know if even that is the answer now.

As soon as you factor in human involvement whether it be sealant cleaning off, sealing adding, removing the engine, or re-installing the engine you have a chance of an problem.

As a byline, When I mentioned to Harrops that the recall was taking just three days from drop off to pickup they just shook their collective heads and laughed. As far as they were concerned, and they do this shit all the time, it was at least a five day job!

Happened to be over at Essendon Honda getting the wife’s car serviced and walked across to the Nissan dealership. That brand new 370Z Nismo at just $66k drive away looked like very nice and very tempting! Might be easier just to bite the bullets and cut the losses on the 86’s.

Meh. Stock twins have had the same issues as post recall cars. The factory isn't magical. As for a Z, get a used one. Much cheaper and the same car.

[Bodalenko]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

Meh. Stock twins have had the same issues as post recall cars. The factory isn't magical. As for a Z, get a used one. Much cheaper and the same car.

Just trying to get my head around ‘Stock twins have had the same issues as POST recall cars.’

In what numbers and with oil starvation issues due to sealant blocking oil flow?

First I’ve heard of that in NON recalled cars.

I’d never buy a second had performance car unless I had a personal connection in some way with the car and the owner. Just too risky..

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by Bodalenko

Just trying to get my head around ‘Stock twins have had the same issues as POST recall cars.’

In what numbers and with oil starvation issues due to sealant blocking oil flow?

First I’ve heard of that in NON recalled cars.

I’d never buy a second had performance car unless I had a personal connection in some way with the car and the owner. Just too risky..

Not a ton of cars, but a few for sure. Sealant has killed engines here and there for years. It's much worse for the repaired ones.

[Bodalenko]

Originally Posted by DandoX

I've been watching all the recall threads and threads on other forums and this is the basic summary answer to your question.

miles after Recall service danger zone:
0-200= failure is less likely to present it self at this lower mileage
200-650= most common failure if something went wrong from the recall
650-1000= less likely but not out of the woods yet
1000-1,500= unlikely any problems from the recall will occur
1,500+ = your as out of the woods as you can be following the recall service

Is that your own analysis based on numbers of car with issues over distance completed before issues or non issues?

You’re talking miles so 1500 miles works out to just over 2400kms. I’m at approximately 1200kms and 6 weeks post recall.

I’d say 0 - 100kms (0 - 60 miles), is the initial danger distance when anything mechanically bad related to the springs themselves and timing case reassembly will show up. Then 100 - 3000kms (60 - 1860 miles] when the sealant has had time to dislodge and move thru the galleries affecting oil flow.

After that the risk must reduce the more distance travelled, but NEVER really end. Perhaps 10000kms or 6000 miles is the ultimate point.. That’s about 3 years at my usage level and well past any chance Toyota will accept responsibility for failures.

If mechanical failure doesn’t get you, attempting to flush out pieces of sealant with regular oil changes and extra filter changes between oil changes is basically all you can do apart from install a stand alone oil pressure gauge in the hope you’ll see pressure drop or fluctuation before they cause an issue. I think I can program mine to flash or beep when pressure drops below a pre determined min.

There are other issues apart from the sealant, like the issue I had with them adding the coolant but not bleeding the air properly resulting in no coolant in the expansion tank, and a CEL generated by a loose pin in the cam sensor connector that was, according to the tech who diagnosed it, disturbed during the recall process.

The coolant was just a top up but took 2 hours of my time for them to fix and check by pressure testing the cooling system. The loose pin, like most elec issues took 6 hours, while I waited, to locate, identify, rectify, and system check to make sure no other connectors and pins, touched during the recall, in the wiring loom were loose. Both were due simply to rushing and not checking properly. The cam sensor pins are well known for causing issues if treated roughly. I’m happy with the dealerships follow up but these things are things that just shouldn’t have happened..

t’d love to know if BRZ owners are having similar issues with their cars given they’re having the recall done by techs/mechanics who have daily experience with Subaru engines especially the FA20.

[Bodalenko]

Just happened to be watch Mighty Car Mods on Youtube and in the latest episode there placing the hydraulics lifters in the Evo's head.

What does Marty find when he removes the Valve cover? Pieces of sealant, in addition to metal and other stuff, mixed in with the oil. At the end of episode (58m17s he actually removes an excess of sealant before refitting the valve cover.

Seems the 86/Brz isn't the only car that has an issue with sealant after a motors been apart..

[DandoX]

Originally Posted by Bodalenko

Is that your own analysis based on numbers of car with issues over distance completed before issues or non issues?

Yeah it's my own analysis based on all the threads of failures I've seen. Go search for all the threads yourself if your curious. I think your worrying about it quite a bit, you also have to factor in the dealership and who is doing it and their success rate and how many recalls they have performed. I really think if your past 1,500 miles following the recall your very unlikely to have a problem as a result of the recall service.

[Bodalenko]

Originally Posted by DandoX

Yeah it's my own analysis based on all the threads of failures I've seen. Go search for all the threads yourself if your curious. I think your worrying about it quite a bit, you also have to factor in the dealership and who is doing it and their success rate and how many recalls they have performed. I really think if your past 1,500 miles following the recall your very unlikely to have a problem as a result of the recall service.

I've read enough threads to know it's an issue, and who of those who have had the recall done and is aware of the issues associated with it, isn't worried after they've had it done? I'm concerned more than worried. In the scope of things this car isn't an overly expensive car so if it shits itself, after I buy a new car, I try and get Toyota and dealership to wear it and when that fails I buy a second hand motor throw it in, remove the bits I've put on the car and sell it, and them, off. Then never touch anything Subaru make again, ever!

[alan.chalkley]

I was so freaked out about the thought of taking the brz in for the recall that i decided it would be easier to trade the car in at a dealer and let the dealer recall the recall.

[Bodalenko]

Originally Posted by alan.chalkley

I was so freaked out about the thought of taking the brz in for the recall that i decided it would be easier to trade the car in at a dealer and let the dealer recall the recall.

Now that’s extreme.. my car post recall has been fine, probably just jinxed myself with that comment. Had the Harrop installed and all is good. I wonder what the recall numbers are up to and what the good v bad experience is now.

Would be great if some of those who did have issue actually posted an update as to what happened with their claims and cars..