(GR86) Second Generation FR-S/BRZ insider info...

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by B-R-Z

Something cool better come out soon, my current BRZ is approaching 200k and I'm ready to buy something. Currently looking at a used M2/M3 or a new M240i and honestly kind of hoping to avoid going German. Considering an S3 once I see what the 2021 refresh looks like.

Man do I wish Honda would drop a new S2000 with 300 or more hp. The AP1 was hands down my favorite car, daily drove one for 7 years.

I also dream for a new S2K, but that car would easily be in the high dollar amounts, more than a new Supra for sure.

[HaXx]

moment of silence for those in the mustang forum. their next gen sports car was announced and its an electric crossover small suv. rip friends, you are in our hearts. for all the struggle we think we know, we know nothing compared to your pain.

[PetrolioBenzina]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

I also dream for a new S2K, but that car would easily be in the high dollar amounts, more than a new Supra for sure.

I read in an Oz car-mag that Honda was going all SUV and a new S2K.

[KR-S]

Originally Posted by HaXx

moment of silence for those in the mustang forum. their next gen sports car was announced and its an electric crossover small suv. rip friends, you are in our hearts. for all the struggle we think we know, we know nothing compared to your pain.

Eh, they still have their traditional Mustang alongside the Mach E. Not exactly meant to be a next-gen; more like a way to cash in quick in the electric car market. Not much to be up in arms about there.

[JesseG]

Originally Posted by B-R-Z

Something cool better come out soon, my current BRZ is approaching 200k and I'm ready to buy something. Currently looking at a used M2/M3 or a new M240i and honestly kind of hoping to avoid going German. Considering an S3 once I see what the 2021 refresh looks like.

Man do I wish Honda would drop a new S2000 with 300 or more hp. The AP1 was hands down my favorite car, daily drove one for 7 years.

Wait for the 2nd gen BRZ/86! BMW can build some really cool cars, but I don’t think you could drive one for nearly 200k (miles?)without going bankrupt.

Agreed on the S2000, and Honda will never build one again.


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[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

I also dream for a new S2K, but that car would easily be in the high dollar amounts, more than a new Supra for sure.

For me, a new S2k should basically be a 2-seat BRZ with a wishbone suspension, a more powerful 4-cyl NA powerplant, and a better interior. Something like that should be quite a bit less than $50k. IMO should be closer to BRZ/MX-5 in price than Supra. Not that it's happenin...

[B-R-Z]

Originally Posted by Will BRZ

There’s been a few people who went that direction after the twin. I can see why. On top of everything you mentioned, you also get the nice luxury feel of the car. I think they are all great cars, but it won’t have that same raw, connected feel that the 86 offers.

M240i no, but I think M2 > 86.

Originally Posted by JesseG

Wait for the 2nd gen BRZ/86! BMW can build some really cool cars, but I don’t think you could drive one for nearly 200k (miles?)without going bankrupt.

Agreed on the S2000, and Honda will never build one again.


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And that's my problem. I drive just under 100 miles a day for my work commute so any car I buy has to go the long haul. I can't keep racking up 50k or so miles and getting something new. With my BRZ purchased on 5/2013 with 8 miles, it has treated me well at currently 172k miles 6.5 years later, it still runs/sounds like new. I am hoping to avoid German, but there are no other cars that interest me coming out of Japan. Praying for a rock solid build like my BRZ is if I go BMW or Audi. I have some confidence in the B58 motor that is in the M240i that Toyota willingly put into the Supra.

[NorthernDriver]

Originally Posted by fritzburg

I’m not a fan of the trend where manufacturers put the ‘iPad’ up at the top of the dash, BMW and Mazda are two of the worst offenders, looks like such an after thought and breaks up the clean lines of the center dash, like the Mazda 3’s monstrosity, hopefully they keep it lower

There's a reason a lot of companies are doing this now : it lowers the dashboard significantly.

With the "tablet style" screen, you can have the entire dashboard be lower in the car along with the screen at the perfect height. Imagine how huge the dashboard in the new A4/Mazda3 would be if it was around that tablet.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by ZDan

For me, a new S2k should basically be a 2-seat BRZ with a wishbone suspension, a more powerful 4-cyl NA powerplant, and a better interior. Something like that should be quite a bit less than $50k. IMO should be closer to BRZ/MX-5 in price than Supra. Not that it's happenin...

There is huge doubt in my mind that it would remain 4 cyl NA. If anything, they'll do similar to what's in the Type-R for a powerplant.

In Canadian monies, Mazda is charging next to 45k for their highest spec mx-5, and I wish I was joking. 45k for a car with 181hp and some auto retracting Targa top... You can vomit now.

Anyway, my point, if the S2K came back, I'm feeling it would be a well equipped (more than the glitter covered poop mx-5) vehicle to match the times we are in and much closer to or exceeding the price of the current Supra at 65k CAD.

[JesseG]

Originally Posted by B-R-Z

M240i no, but I think M2 > 86.





And that's my problem. I drive just under 100 miles a day for my work commute so any car I buy has to go the long haul. I can't keep racking up 50k or so miles and getting something new. With my BRZ purchased on 5/2013 with 8 miles, it has treated me well at currently 172k miles 6.5 years later, it still runs/sounds like new. I am hoping to avoid German, but there are no other cars that interest me coming out of Japan. Praying for a rock solid build like my BRZ is if I go BMW or Audi. I have some confidence in the B58 motor that is in the M240i that Toyota willingly put into the Supra.

I totally understand, it’s hard to come up with a good replacement for the BRZ/86 without increasing the price a lot and/or rolling the dice on reliability. FWIW the VW’s and Audi’s in my family have all been fairly reliable, but not Toyota/Subaru reliable. I have a fondness for cars built in Japan, for some reason they feel assembled better. It’s hard to define really.
The B58 *should* hold up well, especially at stock power levels. But it’s a modern BMW engine with turbos, it’s going to have some issues. I know Toyota tore one apart and tested it, but let’s be honest they pretty much have to say it’s a good engine.
I’m not sure if you need back seats or not, but if I knew I would be racking up miles I would trust something like a Porsche Cayman more than any BMW. I also think an Audi S3/RS3 or TT RS would be a better bet. Or get the BMW and a nice extended warranty.


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[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

There is huge doubt in my mind that it would remain 4 cyl NA. If anything, they'll do similar to what's in the Type-R for a powerplant.

OK, so Civic R type of powerplant. Surely doable for a somewhat minimalist rwd roadster for $40-45k in the U.S. Between FT86/MX-5 and Supra is where it should be.

In Canadian monies, Mazda is charging next to 45k for their highest spec mx-5, and I wish I was joking. 45k for a car with 181hp and some auto retracting Targa top... You can vomit now.

Anyway, my point, if the S2K came back, I'm feeling it would be a well equipped (more than the glitter covered poop mx-5) vehicle to match the times we are in and much closer to or exceeding the price of the current Supra at 65k CAD.

"glitter covered poop mx-5"? IMO MX-5 is the opposite of that. *All* the important-to-me sports car stuff: rwd, lightweight, 50/50ish, and none of the expensive and heavy B.S. I don't care about. But anyway, surely a new S2k should come in between MX-5 and Supra, figure 55k CAD. But since we're talking about an imaginary car it could be anywhere in the spectrum...

[B-R-Z]

Originally Posted by JesseG

I totally understand, it’s hard to come up with a good replacement for the BRZ/86 without increasing the price a lot and/or rolling the dice on reliability. FWIW the VW’s and Audi’s in my family have all been fairly reliable, but not Toyota/Subaru reliable. I have a fondness for cars built in Japan, for some reason they feel assembled better. It’s hard to define really.
The B58 *should* hold up well, especially at stock power levels. But it’s a modern BMW engine with turbos, it’s going to have some issues. I know Toyota tore one apart and tested it, but let’s be honest they pretty much have to say it’s a good engine.
I’m not sure if you need back seats or not, but if I knew I would be racking up miles I would trust something like a Porsche Cayman more than any BMW. I also think an Audi S3/RS3 or TT RS would be a better bet. Or get the BMW and a nice extended warranty.

Completely agree, I've driven nothing but Japanese cars my entire life (except for an 08 328xi for 6 months) and between the price, fun, reliability, they cannot be beat. There are no Japanese cars available right now that I would consider, besides a more powerful BRZ, or if a GTR would drop substantially in price.

The first car I had my eyes on recently is the Audi S3. I went and test drove the S3 and RS3 side by side and I was really impressed. The S3 had me sold until I found I could not get comfortable in the front seats. The bolsters are a little too wide and the seat does not go low enough to be comfortable. I read many others say the same thing with this car. I compared the seats to those in the S4 and they are completely different. I really hope Audi does something with those seats for the 2021 refresh. Another thing was the power, while it's not slow, it would be cool if they would bump it up to at least 300hp. Besides those 2 things the Audi S3 is IMO a perfect fun daily. It looks great, nice level of tech, carbon fiber interior bits are an option, and powerful enough for fun and dealing with traffic.

I agree the B58 is a gamble being it's 100% new and has not yet had time to show problems. From what I've read, BMW is making an effort to improve long term reliability, not sure how true that is but it would be nice. When Steve Papadakis tore one down for the build he recently did, he said it looked pretty solid.

[James H]

I concur also. It's amazing when you compare the interior of 5 year old Civics to Mercedes or BMW of the same age. The interior of Japanese cars hold up well, no rattling, creaking or gaps. Can't say the same for Mercs. I was at dealership and checked out a bunch of 5 year old Mercs, Jags and dash, panels were coming loose!

[James H]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

There is huge doubt in my mind that it would remain 4 cyl NA. If anything, they'll do similar to what's in the Type-R for a powerplant.

In Canadian monies, Mazda is charging next to 45k for their highest spec mx-5, and I wish I was joking. 45k for a car with 181hp and some auto retracting Targa top... You can vomit now.

Anyway, my point, if the S2K came back, I'm feeling it would be a well equipped (more than the glitter covered poop mx-5) vehicle to match the times we are in and much closer to or exceeding the price of the current Supra at 65k CAD.

I was looking at a MX-5 ad and had the same thought. there is a ceiling price for certain cars and Mazda is mad to charge over $40K for that car. I think the sweet spot is $35-37K.