Engineering Explained uses the BRZ to demonstrate the Top 5 Mods for a car

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Hooray there is somebody else that understands the whole story! They are not the cheap ass compromise that so many seem to think they are. They are a quality tire that do the job they are supposed to do perfectly. When people try to push them beyond that job and they fail then they blame the tires. No they are not a race tire they are a normal street tire and behave as such. I don't understand the frequent comments (such as a couple above) of "they slide out even at low speeds". I guess some people have a radically different definition of "low speed" than I do since I have never even once had them slide out in a corner where I didn't deliberately make it happen. Not even in the wet or gravel.

People would much rather blame tires then say "Damn, turned a little too sharply there." Or " Damn, punched on the gas a little too hard on that one."

Originally Posted by Yardjass

This. Not long after I got mine, I had to counter steer on a damp entrance ramp where I thought there was no way I was going fast enough to break them loose. My heavier Z and my ligher Miata both would have had no problems. I don't want a low rolling resistance garbage tire, even if it isn't quite the prius ones that they are made out to be. The bottom line is those things are a compromise and I want a proper tire for proper safety on the road. If I have to pay for a little more gas then so be it.





No. I currently own three RWD cars and nothing else. The other two don't behave that way.

With TC on you don't even need to countersteer if it steps out a little on a damp onramp like you say. It kills power a bit and your all straight. You sure the grippier tires on your other cars dont hide bad inputs? I know mine do.

[gtengr]

I think the tire complaints are more about the sizing, which can be pretty valid depending on what you're used to in other cars. One of the biggest first impressions my BRZ left on me is that it has way more capability than it does grip. It does make good business sense to use a skinny tire though. And there's plenty of space available to add wider tires, so it's not a big deal.

[Allch Chcar]

People have been bickering about this for 5 years as of next month, Feb 2012.
"Toyota chief engineer Tetsuya Tada tells us, “They are Prius tires,” and he’s not joking—they’re identical to those in the Toyota hybrid’s top trim level (outside the U.S.), right down to the compound and construction."
Sauce: http://www.caranddriver.com/features...-around-page-2

[Ganthrithor]

I'd have traded brakes for wheels on this short list-- the stock BRZ brakes are just fine for street driving, and the stock wheels are very heavy for their size. Lighter wheels are better in every way: less rotational inertia, less un-sprung weight, better looking, more tyre sizing flexibility, etc.

It's honestly surprising how much better the car feels over uneven road surfaces with lighter wheels. If you're looking to stay around stock size, you can drop as much as 5-6 pounds per corner by changing wheels. Also it dovetails nicely with the idea of changing tyres, which was his first pick. Dunno why he picked brakes.

[chaoskaze]

Ppl just miss the point, trash or not. That stock tire tells you exactly how you are driving it. If you can learn to grip drive on those, you can bet you will be faster then the guy that just change to grippier tires right away. It's just a good learning tire, it really tells you how the car is moving & is just fun.


As for sliding around.... I think the traction control in our car before 2017..... kind makes the car slide a bit as it starts to intervene??? My car slides just a bit more *initially* with traction on/sports mode then traction off if I'm more aggressive with throttle =__= (before it really kicks in and pulse brake the rear that is) no wonder ppl says the nannys are bad in our car...



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[Dark]

I have my Re71R equipped WRX go sliding at 85degree. Any tire will break loose if you want it to.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by chaoskaze

That stock tire tells you exactly how you are driving it. If you can learn to grip drive on those, you can bet you will be faster then the guy that just change to grippier tires right away.

You nailed it right there. I've had mine for 9 months now and the stock tires are great to have the car teach you what it will do at the limit. We have a short wheelbase so these cars can bite when provoked. Bigger RWD cars slide much lazier than this one, so it's a good thing the stock tire gives you a safER limit to explore.

That said when these tires are done, I will switch to a max performance summer in the same size. I'm ready for more grip and I am confident the car will still slide on demand.

[unhappymeal]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

People have been bickering about this for 5 years as of next month, Feb 2012.
"Toyota chief engineer Tetsuya Tada tells us, “They are Prius tires,” and he’s not joking—they’re identical to those in the Toyota hybrid’s top trim level (outside the U.S.), right down to the compound and construction."
Sauce: http://www.caranddriver.com/features...-around-page-2

Again. Yes, they are Prius tires in Japan, but they are also OEM equipment for some trims of luxury cars. They are a grand touring summer tire designed to give a reasonable balance of traction, durability, comfort and fuel efficiency.

Do I fault people for wanting a stickier tire? Absolutely not and it would be nice if they offered a something like a Bridgestone Potenza or Pilot Super Sport upgrade option. However, Subaru is not alone in this. For the longest time, the Civic Si came stock with Michelin Pilot HX MXM4s--the all season cousin to the the BRZ's stock tires. The GTI also came stock with Pirelli P7s, which are in the same category as the BRZ stock tires.

It was not until Ford started the ridiculous OEM tire arms race with stock Potenzas and PSSs/Sport Cup 2s that people came to expect Y-rated 100-140 tread wear tires on their cars from the factory.

[Ganthrithor]

The stock tyres weren't bad on dry roads. Even at only ~2/3's worn though they felt lethal on wet roads. Mine still had a few mm of tread left but you'd be sliding around at 30mph on curvy roads with only a little dab of throttle. I like on-command slidy action, but it loses its charm a bit when you realize you basically have to drive like a grandma in order to keep the car straight :P

The only thing I ever drove that was similarly slidey on wet roads was my GTI with totally bald all-seasons with a ~350 treadwear rating. Or a car with non-snow tyres on snow.

[WWFT86]

If your objective is to have more grip on street and track, check out these videos. Generally ~2 seconds can be shaved off stock tires per lap by switching to grippier tires.

I guess it's all about what you're after -- You want a faster car, go for the grippy tires or switch to a faster car (HellCat, GT-R or Tesla P100D ) You want an affordable fun to drive car that drifts within speed limit, the stock is no slouch as long as you don't drive like a lunatic. Isn't affordable fun to drive the core design principle of the FT86 in the first place?

I was reading an older thread - "The tires were 1 of the 3 key design elements that Tada-san had to fight for. The other were RWD only and NON-turbo. The car was designed for the enjoyment of driving. This does not mean that it must be the fastest car in it's class. It will not win drag races, g-force competitions, or post lap records in it's stock configuration. However, it will be a hoot to drive! It is more fun driving a slow car fast than a fast car slow (you can only go SO fast before drawing excessive negative attention)." So the tire selection was intentional as what Tada-san envisioned as part of the fun to drive equation (ie. He may have actually chosen a tire that breaks loose earlier?)

This is all presuming you have a stock car. The moment you mod to get any significant HP/torque, the equation changes...


http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...ransformation/

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_IWa_qlt3g​"]2013 Scion FR-S - YouTube[/ame]
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQwWdZ00HYQ"]Modifying the 2013 Subaru BRZ! The First Change a Driver Should Make - Wide Open Throttle Episode 39 - YouTube[/ame]
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPtiHW34iwk"]Stock Tires VS High Performance Tire Comparison Toyota 86/Scion FR-S - Hot Version Volume 116 - YouTube[/ame]

[why?]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

Allow me to debunk his Prius tire debunking.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...ransformation/

The only thing this article teaches us is bigger wheels are bad in every scenario. Amazing 18" lighter wheels went slower. Ok not really. Physics kind of tells us that would be the result, but now we have proof that 18's are only for looks unless they are significantly lighter, which really isn't possible.

Originally Posted by softgrip

"Debunks"??

No way, they are very slippery compared to something with good grip levels.

In stock form you can lose traction so easily - even slight corners at low speed - you can hear the back slipping around, you can feel it. Some people find this fun, but I think it's pretty silly.

I mean, I'm going to buy some milk, not drift.

I've upgraded my wheels and tyres, and it's night and day.

What you are admitting to is not being familiar with the car or rear wheel drive. Many of us are not really familiar with it either, the only other rear wheel vehicles I've driven were a conversion van and an 84 Caddy.

As was mentioned above, the tires are perfect for people who are not familiar with either, because you can break loose and not die or crash. Usually higher grip tires are not as easy to slide around on, when they break free things usually end up very very bad.

Unlike Tcoat, I have broken free into a 4 wheel drift when I was not expecting to. I had all the nannies on too. But it was really easy to control and it was fun to slide around the on ramp in the rain. That is what I want in a street car. I don't get putting the highest traction tires you can find on a street car, they will be totally useless over 90% of the time you are driving. And I do find drifting really fun. My only problem with the stock setup is it is too heavy. Now a car you are going to race is totally different.

[Brayden_23]

Think it's kind of funny to see that the people who are complaining about wet handling are in California who flip out any time they see any sort of precipitation. Living in Washington, wet roads are a regular thing. I blame the "terrifying" experiences that are being had on driver error.

I had only one wet experience that made me realize the tires weren't the best in the wet recently after purchasing the car, but even at that time I was intentionally giving it more gas than what was needed for the turn.

Like others have said, I agree that this tire is not the grippiest, but it is very communicative of when you are approaching the limits which is perfect for drivers who are learning. Grippier tires definitely transform the car into a whole other beast, but unless you really like to carry as much speed as you can into corners, the stock tires will be suitable for most of the people who buy this car - note that many owners will never even be on this forum and are the older working class or recent driver's license obtainees who just wanted a car that looked sporty.

[xiRawr]

So is the 2017 diff a drop in for the older BRZ ?

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by softgrip

"Debunks"??

No way, they are very slippery compared to something with good grip levels.

In stock form you can lose traction so easily - even slight corners at low speed - you can hear the back slipping around, you can feel it. Some people find this fun, but I think it's pretty silly.

I mean, I'm going to buy some milk, not drift.

I've upgraded my wheels and tyres, and it's night and day.

If you feel that way about your car, you should probably never drive a MY13 or MY14 FRS/86 then.