949 Racing Xida coilovers GT86/GR86

[949 Racing]

Originally Posted by BarryOtt

Thanks! You're absolutely right, triples make it easy to make your car slower when you're trying to make it faster
Do you have an estimate when the Triples will be available?

No ETA on triples actually. Not something we are even working on. Focused on getting singles into full production. Best guess would be summer 2020 for triples.

[BarryOtt]

Originally Posted by 949 Racing

No ETA on triples actually. Not something we are even working on. Focused on getting singles into full production. Best guess would be summer 2020 for triples.

Thanks for the info!!!

[blown]

any idea when the semi actives will be available?

[turbofan]

Should follow pretty closely behind the release of the singles, but again, not the current focus. Once the singles are shipping, you'll know Ace isn't too far behind.

[949 Racing]

Little update. Rev 1 strut flanges were still off a bit. Dialing in end link geometry, camber range on final protos now. Looks like we will be able to get -3.5° with OEM upper mounts with about 20mm lower ride height. Tried to get to -4.5° but not possible with strut casting diameter, tire clearance constraints. -3.5° is pretty aggressive and will work for probably 98% of owners. Only last 2% might want between 4 and 5° negative for trailered race cars. Obviously tire wear and tramlining on the highway is pretty awful with that much camber so we're talking about competition focused alignments.

For the rest of owners that want it lowered but more street wear friendly alignments, you will use the intermediate camber chips. We'll probably color code the chips to make it easier to identify which is which without needing to tear the whole thing apart.

Lowest (least negative) camber setting should be at near OEM ride height with max offset chip set outwards for something like .25° negative. So it will be possible for someone on the Touring spring pack and medium size tires to get excellent tire wear, amazing ride quality but still benefit from the responsiveness and control the shocks provide.

[WC-BRZ]

How does one make an informed/educated decision on which coilovers to pick in this price range? There's the ASTs, MCS and JRZs within this range and for someone fairly inexperienced it can be a bit overwhelming.

I know one thing, though: I would like to eliminate bumpiness and the chassis feeling sloppy/out of control during mid-corner bumps.

Also want to eliminate body roll as much as possible - especially during rapid change of direction.

Chassis feeling floaty and out of control over undulations also needs to go!

Finally, also willing to give up a bit of ride comfort to achieve aforementioned goals.

There is no aero and tires are MP4S.

All the technical wizardry surrounding coilover discussions is a bit much, so please try to explain in layman's terms if possible

[Westen86]

Originally Posted by WC-BRZ

How does one make an informed/educated decision on which coilovers to pick in this price range? There's the ASTs, MCS and JRZs within this range and for someone fairly inexperienced it can be a bit overwhelming.

I know one thing, though: I would like to eliminate bumpiness and the chassis feeling sloppy/out of control during mid-corner bumps.

Also want to eliminate body roll as much as possible - especially during rapid change of direction.

Chassis feeling floaty and out of control over undulations also needs to go!

Finally, also willing to give up a bit of ride comfort to achieve aforementioned goals.

There is no aero and tires are MP4S.

All the technical wizardry surrounding coilover discussions is a bit much, so please try to explain in layman's terms if possible

Im going to guess the TOURING set would work best for you if you are running those in 215. I think any size 300tw tire would be fine with the TOURING set. If you go to a 245-265 100tw tire, probably a F:350/R:300-350. From what Ive been following, these coils are capable of handling more than you think. You could also look into a few chassis bushings to help with that "floaty-ness". Rear subframe and steering rack bushings.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by WC-BRZ

How does one make an informed/educated decision on which coilovers to pick in this price range? There's the ASTs, MCS and JRZs within this range and for someone fairly inexperienced it can be a bit overwhelming.

I know one thing, though: I would like to eliminate bumpiness and the chassis feeling sloppy/out of control during mid-corner bumps.

Also want to eliminate body roll as much as possible - especially during rapid change of direction.

Chassis feeling floaty and out of control over undulations also needs to go!

Finally, also willing to give up a bit of ride comfort to achieve aforementioned goals.

There is no aero and tires are MP4S.

All the technical wizardry surrounding coilover discussions is a bit much, so please try to explain in layman's terms if possible

What's the goal with the car? Autox? Track use?

Why do you want to eliminate body roll so much?

[turbofan]

The obsession with body roll is a common one. Folks often think that their car's instability during transitions is due to excessive body roll, but except in extreme cases (like... stock Miatas that just roll over onto the bump stops and chill there) that's not the cause.

Body roll will always happen with weight transfer, but with the dampers tuned properly so it doesn't roll and then rebound. Our current setup on the 86 still has some movement but it's extremely well controlled, and through the esses at Sonoma you can huck it one way then another and it just sticks.

When comparing pricing, make sure you're comparing full system pricing. When you do that I believe you'll find the Xida costs considerably less than those other options.

Beyond that, Xida's double digressive valving improves responsiveness in transitions while also improving suppleness over large hits, like kerbs on a racetrack, keeping the chassis planted. Add in the fact that you'll be able to obtain lots of camber without having to spend the extra money on camber plates, and specific chassis development with several pro-level drivers, the Xida comes out as a pretty huge value.

[Goingnowherefast]

Originally Posted by turbofan

When comparing pricing, make sure you're comparing full system pricing. I believe when you do that you'll find the Xida costs considerably less than those other options.

This. When I price out a set up with MCS 1-ways or AST 5200's it comes out to over $4,000+ after you include springs, helper springs, perches, top hats (plus you need camber plates), and spring dividers. The Xidas are a true, motorsports grade suspension setup for $1,000+ less than the competition.

[949 Racing]

Originally Posted by WC-BRZ

How does one make an informed/educated decision on which coilovers to pick in this price range?

That is an excellent question. First task is to more clearly define what your project goals are. Overall, you have somewhat conflicting requirements. No "bumpiness" but "willing to give up a bit of ride comfort". It's important to first grasp that sharp handling does not necessarily mean a rough ride. Excellent ride quality does not necessarily mean float and wallow. You can have responsiveness and ride quality.

Roll moment is where your decision starts
The place to start again, is your intended usage. This usage determine your tire choice, which in turn, determine RM (Roll Moment). RM is basically how much force is trying to roll the CG (Center of Gravity) over on its RC (Roll Center). In laymens terms "body roll". Body roll does not reduce grip. Body roll only increases the amount of time it takes to transition from max left G to max right G. That is it, no other downside if camber curves are taken out of the equation.

As others have mentioned, there is an obsession with eliminating body roll on street cars because most enthusiasts erroneously equate grip with lack of body roll. The problem with too much roll stiffness on the street is that public roads are lumpy and uneven. Dial in too much roll stiffness and you have a car that will ride like crap, tossing your head back and forth on every little seam. OEM suspension engineers call this "Head Toss", seriously.

Grip is getting a given tire to maintain as constant and unwavering load at the contact patch as possible. A suspension that is bouncing and jittering will have uneven loading of the contact patches and produce less grip. The struggle for guys like me that set up suspensions is convincing folks that a slightly soft feeling car is faster everywhere. The suspension that is sensitive, soaking up all the tiny pavement imperfections will keep the contact patch loaded evenly and produce more grip. Compliance = grip. Stiffness does not equal grip.

Roll Moment, tire size and spring rate
So back to RM. Bigger, sticker tires will have more grip, turn harder and make the body roll more than a narrower, lower grip tire. More RM requires more spring rate. It's that simple. With that higher rate comes more roll stiffness because it needs to be there to keep from hitting bump stops in high G turns.

Good shock valving plays a key role in that transient response. Transient as in sharp throttle, brake or steering inputs. Dial the shocks to their softest settings and the ride is plush, much better than OEM. But it might be too soft for aggressive driving, matter of personal taste and road conditions. Dial the shocks to slightly firmer damping settings and the handling becomes much sharper with little or no ride quality penalty.

With a damper valved specifically for the platform, intended usage and specific types of tires (like the Xida), you will have the correct damping force and low and high shaft speeds at all damping settings. This allows the driver to adjust damping for different driving conditions and also allows a wide range of spring rates to be used.

You may run softer shock settings during the week then add a few clicks for weekend driving, as an example. My guess is you would be happy with our Touring rates, stock sway bars and about 145mm pinch weld height.

[Icecreamtruk]

Not trying to be a prick but although body roll is not always bad, or at least as bad as people make it out to be, it has very little to do with weight transfer. You could have a car with no suspension (a kart) and during cornering, you would still have the majority of your weight on the outside tires. Also, while body roll isnt always bad, its never good. In an ideal world, you would have a car with a suspension soft enough that you can go over bumps and kerbs but stiff enough so that the car has no roll at all whatsoever. Usually impossible, unless the car's CoG and roll center are both at ground height, which is also physically impossible. So at the end of the day, its all a compromise and depends a lot on the car's setup, the tracks you drive at, and the driver preference and skill as well.

[949 Racing]

As Ed mentioned, part of the value proposition of any Xida application is the hundreds of hours of fine tuning valving, shock dimensions, spring lengths, spring rates by a group of guys that know how to win races and national championships. The difference is we don't just build one set for one customer then start all over again. We design the package then make a few hundred shocks. This makes the price plummet and why our kit is $1000-$2000 less than other pro level kits on the market. With few exceptions, most other kits in this range were not developed specifically on street and track just for the 86 by a successful race team. Many shock manufactures or distributors just take a guess at damping and spring rates, replicate OEM dimensions and add it to the catalog. That is not R&D.

One other key detail with 86 Xidas is the proprietary strut flange design that allows more camber with OEM mounts than you can get with the most exotic aftermarket billet camber plates. So that $300~600 expense for camber plates that everyone usually needs, is eliminated.

[turbofan]

Emilio's response above is far more articulate than my own and better explains what I was trying to say. Edited my post a bit. I mostly meant to say that body roll is not the droid you're looking for.