2013 Subaru BRZ vs 2012 Honda Civic Si HFP

[Superhatch]

As a lifetime Honda fan (I've owned every version of the Civic/CRX Si until this last rendition) I decided on the BRZ for a few reasons:

1. RWD...honestly, it's just more fun.
2. HIDs.
3. Alcantara seats/better seats.
4. Touchless entry.
5. Something different.

Something different in the sense that if I had bought an Si, GTi, MS3 or Miata I guarantee I wouldn't get 1/2 the attention Im getting with this car. The conversations that this car spawns is half of the fun! That said, I also knew the potential of the BRZ would far surpass the Si. Granted, in a stock format the HFP and BRZ are nearly identical, the fact that the Si is based of an economy car and the BRZ is designed from the ground up to be a balanced handling machine helps make this decision easier. Rather than having to add parts to the car to -overcome- it's flaws when it's on a track, you are adding parts to the BRZ to improve it's already inherent track-like qualities.

[n2oinferno]

Originally Posted by industrial

When the WRX came out in 2002, there was a $3000 wheel/tire package available from the dealer that radically changed how the WRX performed. Would it be fair to use that in a comparo?

Yes, it would be fair. Available from the factory is considered stock in my opinion. Same reason you see supercars going for ring times with the best available factory offerings.

[switchlanez]

Originally Posted by Superhatch

Granted, in a stock format the HFP and BRZ are nearly identical, the fact that the Si is based of an economy car and the BRZ is designed from the ground up to be a balanced handling machine helps make this decision easier. Rather than having to add parts to the car to -overcome- it's flaws when it's on a track, you are adding parts to the BRZ to improve it's already inherent track-like qualities.

Well put. It's this essence of the car that attracts me. Knowing the full intents of its design since conception and faithful, proven execution on those intents leaves a taste of purity in my mouth. I get a mixed taste with added hormones and preservatives on the Civic.

It's similar to why other sports cars that get spanked by an STI or Evo (sedan-based cars) are still chosen over an STI or Evo. Or why supercar buyers don't consider a better performing GT-R or Corvette ZR1. Numbers don't matter as much as the finer, non-quantifiable aspects of a car.

If I had to choose between a pristine S2K (AP1, AP2, or CR) or the technically inferior 1994-1995 MR2 Turbo for about the same price, I'd pick the MR2. And there are thousands who'd do the same. It's a damn rare unicorn!! What other cars out there can claim to have a performance engine roaring behind its driver with spooling turbine within crisp earshot? Plus the *substantial feel* behind the steering wheel of that little car reminds me of the BRZ. Yet others will resoundingly choose the S2K. It's got a cool interior, handling + VTAK.

All this bicker over 0.1 seconds is ridiculous. It's about what you selectively love and appreciate from a car. And there were much more things engineered into the BRZ that can only be felt, not measured, IMO. :happy0180:

[Superhatch]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

All this bicker over 0.1 seconds is ridiculous. It's about what you selectively love and appreciate from a car. And there were much more things engineered into the BRZ that can only be felt, not measured, IMO. :happy0180:

Indeed.

I've never been in a turbo MR2. Your post makes me want to make that happen soon.

[YukiHachiRoku]

I have already owned 3 civics lol...

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by Superhatch

...Granted, in a stock format the HFP and BRZ are nearly identical, the fact that the Si is based of an economy car and the BRZ is designed from the ground up to be a balanced handling machine helps make this decision easier. ...

Well, the BRZ is also built on an "economy car" base, albeit upgraded and tweaked from the base design. There was actually a bit of controversy that it was the same as the Impreza/Legacy but it's not like it's a bad design to begin with and it seems to work just fine.

They're close enough in performance and I don't see any point in bashing either car. The Civic Si would be the benchmark I would use for this segment anyway.

[industrial]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

Well, the BRZ is also built on an "economy car" base, albeit upgraded and tweaked from the base design. There was actually a bit of controversy that it was the same as the Impreza/Legacy but it's not like it's a bad design to begin with and it seems to work just fine.

They're close enough in performance and I don't see any point in bashing either car. The Civic Si would be the benchmark I would use for this segment anyway.

Also built on an "economy car" base? Just like the civic and focus? That's what your are insinuating.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ0sDiL87eE"][SUBARU] 1 of 2 SUBARU BRZ Development Movie - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdZcX7Hawhk"][SUBARU] 2 of 2 SUBARU BRZ Development Movie - YouTube[/ame]


Wait let me guess, you know better. You see the secrets behind everything and the BRZ is in fact just an Impreza with a tarted up Impreza motor, impreza transmissions and suspension tweaks.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by industrial

Also built on an "economy car" base? Just like the civic and focus? That's what your are insinuating.

[SUBARU] 1 of 2 SUBARU BRZ Development Movie - YouTube

[SUBARU] 2 of 2 SUBARU BRZ Development Movie - YouTube


Wait let me guess, you know better. You see the secrets behind everything and the BRZ is in fact just an Impreza with a tarted up Impreza motor, impreza transmissions and suspension tweaks.

No, I'm just saying it's the same basic design as Subaru's economy cars, and that it isn't a bad similarity. The engine isn't even the same family BTW.

[was385]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

No, I'm just saying it's the same basic design as Subaru's economy cars, and that it isn't a bad similarity. The engine isn't even the same family BTW.

Same basic design as in it's a metal chasis with four wheels? They're completely separate platforms.

[Turbowned]

Honda needs to quit f**king about and make a quick, non-hybrid CR-Z and an S2000 replacement. I don't care about the NSX anymore because it'll be FR, hybrid and far too expensive to worry about.'

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

No, I'm just saying it's the same basic design as Subaru's economy cars, and that it isn't a bad similarity. The engine isn't even the same family BTW.

I think what you're trying to convey is that the BRZ utilizes components from some of it's existing cars, like the suspension and brakes, and other minor things. Such is common of any manufacturer. However it is nothing like an Impreza because it's a purpose-built performance car built on a separate chassis with a separate drivetrain layout, separate drivetrain, etc. The Civic HFP is based off the base model Civic, which is a non-performance economy car in it's basic form.

It's sort of like the difference between the AE86 Corolla GT-S and the MR2. The base Corolla is an economy car and the GT-S is a performance version, whereas the MR2 is a purpose-built sports car. The performance differences between the two may be negligible, but the way they both feel are very different.

Back when they were new, a magazine did a stock-for-stock comparison: the AE82 Corolla FX16 GT-S FWD hatch was quicker in an auto-x comparison against the AE86 GT-S RWD coupe and AW11 MR2, but the FX16 GT-S sales were nowhere near the AE86 and AW11 sales. Looking back, I don't recall seeing an AE82 Corolla of any trim level in years!

[switchlanez]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

Back when they were new, a magazine did a stock-for-stock comparison: the AE82 Corolla FX16 GT-S FWD hatch was quicker in an auto-x comparison against the AE86 GT-S RWD coupe and AW11 MR2, but the FX16 GT-S sales were nowhere near the AE86 and AW11 sales. Looking back, I don't recall seeing an AE82 Corolla of any trim level in years!

Interesting, I never knew that. If I lived at that time my preference would rank AW11>AE86>>AE82. I think I saw an AE82 on the road in Seattle last fall. Probably the first time in my life or at least in decades. Looked just like this:

[JPxM0Dz]

Say what you want about the HFP, I'm sure it's a fun ride. But it won't turn heads like the FR-S or BRZ, after all it's just another Civic. No suprises when you pass one, there's just nothing that exicting about it's look.
I can't count how many times I've had cars that cost three and four times what I paid for my BRZ checkin my ride. Even had a guy in a new Jaguar XKR-S recently checking out my BRZ The Civics are simply forgetable when comes to appearances.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

I don't care about the NSX anymore because it'll be FR

NSX will be mid-engined. The V10 FR nsx concept is long gone.

[Turbowned]

Originally Posted by ZDan

NSX will be mid-engined. The V10 FR nsx concept is long gone.

Ohhh yeah, somehow that slipped my mind. Well, the hybrid drive will probably power the front wheels, so front-motor, and-mid-engine, lol. Either way, far out of the realm of most mortals and I could give a crap about hybrid drive in a performance car, even if it does increase power it probably adds more weight than it's worth. Put a couple turbos on it instead and color me impressed!