Nissan Design Boss: No Chance of Toyobaru Fighter

[OldSkoolToys]

Still don't see why they can't create a lighter platform for sports cars (New S and Z), and then 'stretch' it for any bigger Infiniti sport luxury cars they'd wish to use the platform for. They've already done so with the FM platform for the M35 and 45.

Let the SUV and land yacht sedans share their own platform. THAT is what is currently holding the Z back from getting its much needed sports car image re-invisioned.

[NemesisPrime909]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

The Z isn't really a driver's car though. It's a competent all-around sports car, but it's overweight and the engine, although having decent power, isn't that amazing. It's a fairly good car, but it's more like a Japanese Mustang than a Silvia/240sx/GT86.

I'm saying using the Z35 to combat the twins would make more sense then just making a 3rd sports car.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

Still don't see why they can't create a lighter platform for sports cars (New S and Z), and then 'stretch' it for any bigger Infiniti sport luxury cars they'd wish to use the platform for. They've already done so with the FM platform for the M35 and 45.

Let the SUV and land yacht sedans share their own platform. THAT is what is currently holding the Z back from getting its much needed sports car image re-invisioned.

Money. When you can take the same platform that you use to build decent-selling SUVs/sedans and spin off a sports coupe from that, it's a much easier sell to execs and board members - even if that sports coupe sells under 10k units/year. If you're talking about creating a whole separate platform for a car with such low sales volume, it'll never get approval.

This is why I think Nissan should really throw a V8 (or V6TT) into the next 370z. If the chassis is by necessity going to be platform shared across sedans and SUVs, you may as well make use of the heavier/bigger platform by fitting a larger engine. That's essentially what Chevy did with the Camaro and Ford did with the Mustang. As we've seen with those cars, added power can offset the platform weight for most intents and purposes, certainly enough for most buyers.

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by ZDan

It drives more like an S13, which is a good thing! My '91 240SX had just about the best-feeling power-steering I've ever experienced. My '94s steering was vague and rubbery and NUMB. Also, engine-wise my '91 happily pulled to indicated 7200 rev limiter, whereas my '94 fell flat above 6000.

I loved my '91, but the '94 was a disappointment, nowhere near as engaging or fun to drive.

Minor differences in wheelbase and front/rear track width stagger aren't the major players here, IMO. The 101" wheelbase 86 behaves more like the 97" wheelbase S13 than the 99" wheelbase S14.

I know you liked your s13 more than the s14, but, meh, I don't agree. I think the KA is pretty boring in all versions. Needs an SR, IMO. The S13 understeers much more than the S14. The S14 is very neutral, and the steering feel on it can easily be improved with aftermarket parts. In fact, I'm pretty sure an S13 steering rack can fit in the S14 just fine. The only difference is you use a bushing from the S13 because there is a minor difference in thickness.

Also, the wheelbase and track differences aren't really that minor, honestly. The FR-S feels more stable and planted, like the S14, and a lot of that has to do with the dimensions.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

I know you liked your s13 more than the s14, but, meh, I don't agree. I think the KA is pretty boring in all versions. Needs an SR, IMO. The S13 understeers much more than the S14. The S14 is very neutral, and the steering feel on it can easily be improved with aftermarket parts. In fact, I'm pretty sure an S13 steering rack can fit in the S14 just fine. The only difference is you use a bushing from the S13 because there is a minor difference in thickness.

All I know is I tracked both of them (backups to my 240Z street track car) (totally stock and on mediocre UHP tires), and the S13 was fun to drive and engaging, the S14 was dull and the steering feel was nonexistent. In my experience they were both pretty neutral, but the S13 seemed to enjoy hanging the back end out a lot more. Fellow track-hound mentioned he'd never gotten a point-by from a car that was totally sideways at the time :P
Engine-wise, the earlier KA had different cams and had a lot more usable rpm headroom above peak power, up to 7200 indicated, where the later KA dies before its 6500 limit. It makes a big difference, at least it did to me.

Also, the wheelbase and track differences aren't really that minor, honestly. The FR-S feels more stable and planted, like the S14, and a lot of that has to do with the dimensions.

S14 may feel more "stable and planted" to you, but it just feels less responsive and less fun to me.
I think it's a lot more to do with suspension tuning and bushing stiffnesses than the 97" vs. 99" wheelbase. But in any case I generally prefer shorter wheelbases. If the twins are more like the S14, all the more reason for me to keep DDing the S2000

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by ZDan

All I know is I tracked both of them (backups to my 240Z street track car) (totally stock and on mediocre UHP tires), and the S13 was fun to drive and engaging, the S14 was dull and the steering feel was nonexistent. In my experience they were both pretty neutral, but the S13 seemed to enjoy hanging the back end out a lot more. Fellow track-hound mentioned he'd never gotten a point-by from a car that was totally sideways at the time :P
Engine-wise, the earlier KA had different cams and had a lot more usable rpm headroom above peak power, up to 7200 indicated, where the later KA dies before its 6500 limit. It makes a big difference, at least it did to me.


S14 may feel more "stable and planted" to you, but it just feels less responsive and less fun to me.
I think it's a lot more to do with suspension tuning and bushing stiffnesses than the 97" vs. 99" wheelbase. But in any case I generally prefer shorter wheelbases. If the twins are more like the S14, all the more reason for me to keep DDing the S2000

The wheelbase of the twins is 101.2"... pretty long for these sorts of cars. The difference between the different KAs is minor. The newer one has better midrange. Either way, it's not a very exciting engine, which is why most turbo it or swap it.

[mulekr1]

Originally Posted by Vracer111

NISMO Juke RS...if they made a RWD one it would be game over for the miata in terms of handling. As it is now, the NISMO Juke RS already feels more like driving the FR-S than the ND miata does.

I have an AWD one so idk if you tried a FWD one but Jukes honestly feel heavy as shit.

[themadscientist]

I like a car that is balanced like a lawn dart. 50/50 feels unnatural to me. Get the center of gravity right between the front wheels and I am happy as a fat kid with cake.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by themadscientist

I like a car that is balanced like a lawn dart. 50/50 feels unnatural to me. Get the center of gravity right between the front wheels and I am happy as a fat kid with cake.

[themadscientist]

I have an ascot, we just need two chicks to roll with us, a dog and you are going to need to become a stoner.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by themadscientist

I have an ascot, we just need two chicks to roll with us, a dog and you are going to need to become a stoner.

Do you guys really want me posting stoned?
I don't think that would go well.
Up for the rest of it though.
Oh and I had a van just like that (my pic not yours)with a 351 Cleveland crammed into it. Talk about a wonky COG! Didn't help that you sit ahead of the front wheels either. Whole different driving dynamics.

[themadscientist]

Oh, I know. I used to have a racing truck.

http://vid119.photobucket.com/albums...o/MOV00535.mp4

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by themadscientist

I like a car that is balanced like a lawn dart. 50/50 feels unnatural to me. Get the center of gravity right between the front wheels and I am happy as a fat kid with cake.

Why do you think you prefer more forward c.g.? It would make drifting with modest horsepower easier I guess...
c.g. between front wheels won't work with rear wheel drive. At all.

For FR layout, the more rearward the c.g. the better as far as I'm concerned. 55/45 feels unnatural to me! 50/50 puts 11% more static load on the drive wheels, allowing greater acceleration which further loads up the drive wheels. Pretty critical for higher power/weight cars. I wish I could get it to more like 45/55 on the FD.

Driver location relative to c.g. is probably what you "feel" more so than absolute c.g. location. Driver sitting well aft of vehicle c.g. gives more sensitivity to rotation.

Imagine a 2-seat version of the FT86 with the engine/trans and driver moved 30" or so aft. Better, more rearward weight distribution (50/50 or better, easy), AND you get the classic FR sports car FEEL with the driver sitting just in front of the rear tires. Toyota and/or Subaru should do this...

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

The wheelbase of the twins is 101.2"... pretty long for these sorts of cars.

It is surprising to me that with that much wheelbase to play with, AND a short H4 engine, that they couldn't do much if any better than the S13/S14 on weight distribution. Apparently the steering shaft forces the H4 engine to sit further forward than an inline or V engine. Somebody should make a V4 sports car...

The difference between the different KAs is minor. The newer one has better midrange.

I drove the hell out of my S13 and my S14. Never noticed better midrange in the S14, and honestly the S14's lack of usable revs up top vs. S13 bothered me at the track a lot more than I expected.

Either way, it's not a very exciting engine, which is why most turbo it or swap it.

Exciting, no. But I did enjoy revving the S13 out at the track, whereas the S14 made me sad above 6000...

If I had one today I would consider cams, increasing CR, and bumping up the rev limiter to 7500 or so over an SR20 swap. Or maybe boost the KA. I think the basic engine was overly criticized, it wasn't that bad in the S13. IMHO!