[vehicle now fixed] Hot engine temperature reading on cold start, electrical?

[Joeystomato]

News: they fixed it early.

OP CODES: 801013 (0.2, T1 8A, T2 99) TDT HOOKUP
160991 (1.3, T1 13, T2 99) DRAIN. CLEAN, BLEED COOLANT SYSTEM
VEHICLE IN FAIL SAFE MODE. COOLANT RANGE MODE SET, ERASED CODES FOUND DILUTED COOLANT. AND POSSIBLE AIR LOCK IN SYSTEM. WASHED OUT RESIVOR. CLEANED AND WASHED OUT RAD. INSTALLED NEW COOLANT AND ROADTESTED VEHICLE IN CHECK MODE AND NO DTC SET MIL OFF. SYSTEM WORKING NORMALLY AT THIS TIME

I guess they bleeded the coolant and washed stuff. So not electrical. Strange. Anyway, nice to have the car back

2014 Scion FR-S, 8300 kms

Plugged my car in for the night, next morning i start it and it's telling me the engine's completely hot (needle went all the way up). Throws a CEL.

It's not hot. No leak, no smell, no smoke. just the radiator fans spinning up constantly. Coolant is full (after some inspection). Engine oil is brand new. Gas full. They just serviced it - they changed out a faulty block heater. But they told me they had to tear up some stuff in the process - new exhaust manifold was needed apparently. This was two weeks ago. Don't really know if it's related, but the block heater is electrical, and this happened after i plugged it in, so who knows. I plugged it in before without this happening.

I drive it to work anyway, doesn't seem like anything's actually wrong, shift early, baby it all the way. Once i'm off work, car won't start [engine is completely cold at this point]. It cranks, it catches, and then dies as soon as it catches. So it's like, starting, and as soon as the tachometer tries to go to the right amount of revs, it dies. Engine still saying completely hot - i assume this is why it's refusing to start. Broken thermometer? who knows.

Called up toyota roadside, it's at the dealer now with no confirmation as to whether or not they'll look at it today. They say probably monday. No loaner car, too young to rent.

What do you guys think? anyone had this before? Seems totally electrical.. I assume the thermometer is broken as nothing else seems wrong with it.. Battery fine, fluids fine, water pump absolutely fine.. no leaks..

I did add some coolant, that's how i know it's full. Put some stuff i got from the shell station that was nearby.. now it's way past the "MAX". It started fine after that, though.. I was on break at the time. But once i was off work it didn't wanna start anymore.

I doubt the coolant i added would do that. But i know it's not the right coolant. Either way, i was desperate. At least i know it wasn't an issue of low coolant.

Could it really be me adding coolant that made it not wanna start anymore? would they deny warranty now because i put gas station coolant?

[zc06_kisstherain]

since you got CEL. why didn't you pull the code? we have no idea either until you pull up the code and it specifically tells what's wrong with it

[Joeystomato]

I don't know how to pull the code, man. I don't have an excuse as to why I didn't, really. Never got around to learning how.

Just sharing my experience for ya guys. I'll ask the techs whatever codes they pull.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Joeystomato

I don't know how to pull the code, man. I don't have an excuse as to why I didn't, really. Never got around to learning how.

Just sharing my experience for ya guys. I'll ask the techs whatever codes they pull.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9-6dkjMmQ4"]How to Use an OBD-II Scan Tool - YouTube[/ame]


Edit: I wouldn't recommend actually buying a scanner, most people will need it at most once every year or two, and the cheap ones can cause more frustration than help. Many people seem to like the bluetooth and torque app pairing, easy to google lots of support especially around here.

What do I think? This is a great anecdote that reminds me why I don't take my car to the dealership, they'll probably dig through and find something they fucked up replacing the block heater, call the part faulty and say 'huh that's weird' as if it happened out of the blue.

Good luck, hope they don't try to blame the operator

[UtahSleeper]

What color antifreeze did you add? Wasn't it meant for all color types?

[Joeystomato]

Originally Posted by UtahSleeper

What color antifreeze did you add? Wasn't it meant for all color types?

Color was green, label says its ok to mix with other coolants. Idk. I left it in the same car so idk what the brand was

[Tcoat]

At first I was thinking straight forward temp sensor failure but that certainly would not cause the car to not start.
I do not understand at all how they could have screwed up your exhaust manifold so bad they had to replace it by just changing a block heater.
Was this the first time you used the heater since it was swapped?

[Joeystomato]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

At first I was thinking straight forward temp sensor failure but that certainly would not cause the car to not start.
I do not understand at all how they could have screwed up your exhaust manifold so bad they had to replace it by just changing a block heater.
Was this the first time you used the heater since it was swapped?

I don't know. I guess they just did. Not the first time i used it. I used it many times - like almost for two weeks. This particular time it just messed something up.

I really thought it was the temp sensor not letting it start. But now that you say that..

It let me start it before [while the engine was ""Hot""] and eventually it refused to start, over the course of around 8-9 hours. Like i said, the car would actually let me start it but about a second before it was "fully started" (god this is hard to explain) it would die out again. Something's basically saying "no, stop" at the last moment.

I never drove it with that new coolant. I still wanna say it's electrical, something went and now the car just doesn't wanna start. Is that possible? Could an error code be telling the car not to start? Is it because the coolant level is over "MAX"? Could mixing green and blue have ruined something? Keep in mind i never drove it with the new coolant in. Just started it.
Basically throughout the course of the day...

Easy cold start [with block heater], no problems, but the sensor told me "hot engine"
Then the start was a little stuttered, but it still started fine - ~ 2 hours later - still "hot engine" - this was before and after the new green coolant
After the engine was completely cold, no more start (approx 7 hours later - after green coolant)

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Joeystomato

I don't know. I guess they just did. Not the first time i used it. I used it many times - like almost for two weeks. This particular time it just messed something up.

I really thought it was the temp sensor not letting it start. But now that you say that..

It let me start it before [while the engine was ""Hot""] and eventually it refused to start, over the course of around 8-9 hours. Like i said, the car would actually let me start it but about a second before it was "fully started" (god this is hard to explain) it would die out again. Something's basically saying "no, stop" at the last moment.

I never drove it with that new coolant. I still wanna say it's electrical, something went and now the car just doesn't wanna start. Is that possible? Could an error code be telling the car not to start? Is it because the coolant level is over "MAX"? Could mixing green and blue have ruined something? Keep in mind i never drove it with the new coolant in. Just started it.
Basically throughout the course of the day...

Easy cold start [with block heater], no problems, but the sensor told me "hot engine"
Then the start was a little stuttered, but it still started fine - ~ 2 hours later - still "hot engine" - this was before and after the new green coolant
After the engine was completely cold, no more start (approx 7 hours later - after green coolant)

Mixing the coolants will do nothing at all and the level is a minor thing that is a non issue.
Since it is impossible for the engine to still be hot after 7 hours it does appear to be the sensor but that still does not explain why it ran before and not now.
I am at a loss! Please update when you know more.

[Joeystomato]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Mixing the coolants will do nothing at all and the level is a minor thing that is a non issue.
Since it is impossible for the engine to still be hot after 7 hours it does appear to be the sensor but that still does not explain why it ran before and not now.
I am at a loss! Please update when you know more.

I will for sure. Thanks guy. My best prediction at the moment is that it's utterly electrical, something went wrong, either a wire is frayed or a fuse blew. I don't want to say it's an engine thing because the engine was absolutely fine the entire time it would let me start it and drive off. The other reason i don't wanna say it's an engine thing is because once it comes to engine work under warranty, they start finding excuses to blame ya. (previous experience with this dealership)

I should probably point out that I was driving it quite hard the night before.. dropping the clutch, revving [not redlining].. drifting a little bit too. In the snow. Maybe driving it like that for the first time in awhile shook something loose? Should point out it was COMPLETELY fine for an entire hour of driving after I was done thrashing it - took an hour to get home. I'm still a bit convinced it was their fault, the guy who serviced my car last time had this look on his face like, "oh shit" when i came in. lol

One more thing. Sometimes when I'm parked, this burning smell comes in from the vents. Was it a disaster waiting to happen? Felt more like a transmission smell. Kind of burnt rubbery, but not burnt rubber. Dunno if anyone knows what I'm on about. its not the tires. Engine never smelled new after i crashed it and got it back from the collison center. I didn't damage the engine during the crash though, i just sideswiped a guy with my rear end. Only broke an axle and my bumper.

But I digress...
Let's see what happens on monday, since i guess a car that needs to be towed to the dealership has no priority over some other guy's tire rotation. Not that it should, but I mean, you could at least send a guy to check it out.. Whatever, man.

[D_Thissen]

Ive gone through 2 block heaters since I got my FRS last feb. I had it replaced in December and then again 3 weeks later. No idea what happened other than it cooked itself. Subaru and Toyota can not understand why 1 let alone 2 failed.


Here is my original one that came with the car.

[Joeystomato]

Woah. I think next winter i'll just get a beater. Thank god spring is coming. I really thought I could drive this car year round without an issue. I guess not..
Or it could be bad luck..

I'll find out.. shame it's gotta be on monday

[D_Thissen]

I wonder if it has something to do with ambient temp. When I tried the 2nd block heater, I had it plugged in for 4-6 hours but it was only around -10C. Maybe it wasn't cold enough and that caused the element to get hot enough to create air pockets around it? The week after I killed the 2nd one, the temps dropped to -25C ish. It started up, didn't like it, but it did. I agree, beater next year.

[Joeystomato]

Originally Posted by D_Thissen

I wonder if it has something to do with ambient temp. When I tried the 2nd block heater, I had it plugged in for 4-6 hours but it was only around -10C. Maybe it wasn't cold enough and that caused the element to get hot enough to create air pockets around it? The week after I killed the 2nd one, the temps dropped to -25C ish. It started up, didn't like it, but it did. I agree, beater next year.

Admittedly I did have it plugged in while it was only -1 outside. That shouldn't create a problem but I suppose it did. (It was -12 the night before)
I guess that could be my culprit..