New ICE Vehicles Banned in California by 2035

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Stonehorsw

The article is correct when talking about the braking distance, it is mostly dependent on the tire to road friction coefficient. But the handling characteristics are incorrect, you can have controls that can improve specific situations (drive a Volvo in sketch situations). The article kind of admits that in the middle, but then push back.

AWD + Winter tires is the best, but it does not mean that AWD/4WD are similar to FWD in winter conditions.

If you have a chance, go ro any testing track in Sweeden, Winconsin or MI UP area during winter, you will have lots of fun.
Drive a 2wd PU, then compare to a 4wd PU. You can do some manouvers (slalom, figure 8, lane changes, 90 curve, crowned areas, and so on).

A V-box unit may help you to collect the data and see for yourself.

Yeah, forward performance will improve with AWD. VSC and traction control will be equal between 2WD and AWD/4WD, so there is probably not much need for AWD/4WD in terms of movement or safety, as much as, it is an improvement in acceleration. Regardless, it is a moot point (more of a ‘I wonder if’) because EVs can do AWD/4WD.

[Stonehorsw]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Yeah, forward performance will improve with AWD. VSC and traction control will be equal between 2WD and AWD/4WD, so there is probably not much need for AWD/4WD in terms of movement or safety, as much as, it is an improvement in acceleration. Regardless, it is a moot point (more of a ‘I wonder if’) because EVs can do AWD/4WD.

You can use torque vectoring technology, you can better distribute traction during curves, you can rebalance also if there is any friction difference between the tires and so on. I won’t duel more with you because you don’t wanna learn.

I am on this area for 16 years, so I have developed, tested, compared, validated and homologated several vehicles on safety systems.

As you normally ask for references, Thomas Gillespe, Milliken and Rudolph Limpert books are good for starters.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Stonehorsw

You can use torque vectoring technology, you can better distribute traction during curves, you can rebalance also if there is any friction difference between the tires and so on. I won’t duel more with you because you don’t wanna learn.

I am on this area for 16 years, so I have developed, tested, compared, validated and homologated several vehicles on safety systems.

As you normally ask for references, Thomas Gillespe, Milliken and Rudolph Limpert books are good for starters.

How many cars have active torque vectoring? What can be done in the name of performance isn’t necessarily needed for a commute to work in snow country. Regardless, this tangent seems to be getting off topic. Even if I conceded that AWD is mandatory in snow areas, this doesn’t mean trucks are needed, nor does it mean that ICE trucks are needed.

Most AWDs or 4WDs don’t have active diffs or active torque vectoring (not brake vectoring), but even RWD can have active diffs or vector. Most AWD systems use open diffs with VSC on the brakes. Torque vectoring is actually more likely to occur with dual motor EVs. Also, the extra weight and motors over the wheels can aid EVs in traction. What can’t be done with an EV that could only be done with an ICE as it pertains to traction or AWD/4WD systems because that is the point?

[soundman98]

um...

[WildCard600]

Originally Posted by soundman98

um...

Random aside, I used to live a few miles from their facility in Dalton, NH. Really cool place. Someday would like to attend their school and get out on the track.


Now we return to our regularly scheduled ridiculousness.

[Wally86]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

You think spending more than the next ten other countries on military and accounting for almost a trillion dollars a year isn’t excessive? Have you considered what we could do with that money? Could we save social security, since you brought it up.

The point is that many countries get more for their tax dollar like getting tuition paid for, healthcare paid for, childcare paid for, etc. so if someone is only looking at the taxes other countries pay without looking at the whole picture then it looks bad, but we have it worse. We pay far more for healthcare with worse outcomes, and that goes the same with many topics. Norway is investing in green infrastructure. We are building our military.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the...ending-3306308

That diagram is showing discretionary spending. Exactly the same as we discussed before. That 50% is of less than 30% of total budgeting so it's still 16ish% of the budget. Doesn't matter how you keep trying to frame it to look more significant.



I think each country is different and making irrelevant comparisons is... irrelevant?

You brought up social security...
I don't think social security should be saved at all. Give everyone their contributions and throw them into their personal 401ks instead.

Sounds like you're a fan of equity which is a silly idea imho.

[phm14]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Get your tin foil hat on. This is from NASA.




Hydrogen is produced from carbon sources like natural gas, and it is far less efficient than EVs, so we just aren’t there yet. Once we have an abundance of green energy then hydrogen will make sense. Not yet.

So, it appears your liberal mind works like most others. Anyone who disagrees with your head full of BS, is crazy. I really don't care what misinformation you and your state are living under, but your "evidence" proves my point, NASA boy. Somebody's data is off: https://sites.google.com/a/carleton....xies/ice-cores
Uncle Joes' Neo-Marxists can't be wrong, though. After all, Memorial Day, he nailed it with "Americas' #1 threat is white supremacy, followed by the climate." Doesn't really matter if what I say is true or not, since your mind is closed to anything that isn't put out by big corporate media.

[Wally86]

Originally Posted by phm14

So, it appears your liberal mind works like most others. Anyone who disagrees with your head full of BS, is crazy. I really don't care what misinformation you and your state are living under, but your "evidence" proves my point, NASA boy.

Confirmation bias isn't a "liberal mind" only issue, I assure you.
It's a human issue.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by soundman98

um...

So it makes a slight difference. Cool. 4WD EVs will probably be good too.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Wally86

That diagram is showing discretionary spending. Exactly the same as we discussed before. That 50% is of less than 30% of total budgeting so it's still 16ish% of the budget. Doesn't matter how you keep trying to frame it to look more significant.



I think each country is different and making irrelevant comparisons is... irrelevant?

You brought up social security...
I don't think social security should be saved at all. Give everyone their contributions and throw them into their personal 401ks instead.

Sounds like you're a fan of equity which is a silly idea imho.

It shows 50% of discretionary spending is going to the military which is ridiculous considering it is more than the next ten countries combined. That is crazy that half of my discretionary taxes go to military budget. I bet other countries get far more in return on their tax dollar from discretionary spending than the US. They also get far more in non-discretionary spending. That’s the point.

You are in the 4% minority on Social Security. Considering the vast majority of Americans suck at saving their money or managing money, Social Security is essential. Many people live paycheck to paycheck, and 40% are a $400 hospital bill or car repair bill from being broke. Do you really think people are going to set aside money from their paycheck for their future? Only 30% of Americans are saving into their 401k, yet 60% have access to one. 40% don’t even have access to one. Wake up to the reality of America.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/feeds.a...ml%3f_amp=true

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foo...count-balance/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.per...lance-age/amp/

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by phm14

So, it appears your liberal mind works like most others. Anyone who disagrees with your head full of BS, is crazy. I really don't care what misinformation you and your state are living under, but your "evidence" proves my point, NASA boy. Somebody's data is off: https://sites.google.com/a/carleton....xies/ice-cores
Uncle Joes' Neo-Marxists can't be wrong, though. After all, Memorial Day, he nailed it with "Americas' #1 threat is white supremacy, followed by the climate." Doesn't really matter if what I say is true or not, since your mind is closed to anything that isn't put out by big corporate media.

You do realize that those core samples aren't needed to measure present day CO2 levels? You just need to use an instrument to measure what is in the atmosphere right now. You get that right? Why don't you go buy an instrument and measure the CO2 in the air right now and then come back and tell us what you get and then you can compare it to the numbers you just agreed were accurate. We have been doing that for quite a while, so we can compare CO2 that is stored in ice with direct CO2 measurements.

The scale of those ice samples go back 400k years. I don't know how big your screen is but 400k years is covered in eight inches on my screen. That means there is 50k years for every inch. That means the last 50 years would be 1/1000th of an inch (0.001''). Perhaps those years weren't covered in the core samples or would show as a near vertical line at zero.

Here are direct measurements. I'm glad you posted data you do accept because you can compare these direct measurements to those numbers. You will see the CO2 maxed out around 300ppm, but are currently at 420ppm. That is a 40% increase over the previous highest peak, and in fact, the graph I posted does show exactly your graph of ice core measurements with the direct measurements from the last 50 years added to it. Again, don't believe them or me? Go measure CO2 levels yourself.

The graphs show monthly mean carbon dioxide measured at Mauna Loa Observatory, Hawaii. The carbon dioxide data on Mauna Loa constitute the longest record of direct measurements of CO2 in the atmosphere.

https://gml.noaa.gov/ccgg/trends/

[86league]

[QUOTE=soundman98;3438643]um...

Wouldn't any decent/modern 4 channel ABS system do better than a locked center differential?

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by 86league

Wouldn't any decent/modern 4 channel ABS system do better than a locked center differential?

You mean to tell me that an 80's Jeep might not be the best example to use? I think confirmation bias was mentioned above.

You are making a good point, but it'll probably fall on deaf ears, and this side discussion it moot because an EV can provide a 4WD system. Moreover, the Cybertruck and the Hummer EV can be fitted with three motors, which could provide far greater control off-roading and in snow than a locking diff from a single motor on ICEs.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by 86league

Wouldn't any decent/modern 4 channel ABS system do better than a locked center differential?

modern ABS is leaps and bounds above the ABS systems in the vehicles they used.

but solving a mechanical problem with electronics, it's still got the same root problem though. the wheels need to first slip in order to trigger the system to do anything.

by locking axles together, it reduces mechanical slippage, and reduces the times that the system would need to do anything in the first place.