STI Owner Thinks He Wants BRZ as DD & Track Car. Thoughts?

[JSube]

Currently my DD is a lightly-modded ’15 STI bought new and tracked occasionally. But this year I’ll want to track it more (6-8 events) since the track car I’ve shared with a friend the past couple years won’t be available.

In talking BRZ with a shop last Fall that's a long-time Subaru specialist (racing, building, tuning & developing) I was told that reducing engine temps is the first consideration for track use, with a well-ducted oil cooler and high capacity radiator (Koyo or CSF, shop's not a fan of Mishi. at all off the street.) So the way I’m looking at it, I’d have to do the same mods to the STI and then I’d still be driving a car that’s 500lbs heavier than the BRZ and not RWD, which I have to admit I miss. Would be fun to have a dedicated track car, but that’s not in the cards.
They also said the torque crater can be largely eliminated by ELH, airflow mods and an Ecutek tune, because I'm only interested in keeping it N/A. Would def. consider a flex fuel kit at some point.
Thanks for any direction/advice/disagreement

[Scrappydoo]

Thoughts?

You're broadcasting?

[cjd]

Torque crater? Overblown...

that said, header and tune cleans up the dip. A good EL long-tube gets you gains across the board (with tune) - so does just driving the car.

You don't need a different radiator. Oil cooler is a good idea if you're pushing hard enough. Tires and alignment. Brake pads and fluid.

beyond that... read! Maybe start here and here.

[strat61caster]

^ That, car is pretty capable, it's up to the owner to decide if it fits their needs.

Lightweight impractical momentum cars aren't for everyone. I'm of the opinion that if you wouldn't consider a Miata than the 86 probably isn't a great fit.

Other than that the shop suggestions seem to be on the level, no reason for me to repeat what @cjd just posted.

Car seems to take to modest FI like a fish to water, but if you 'need that' right off the bat then you're probably better off looking into something more power oriented to begin with.

[why?]

if you are going to track a lot then cooling is the biggest issue. The track group on facebook seems to like 25 row setrab units. And frankly with some of the under hood temps reported might as well try and figure out extra cooling for everything else at the same time too. But that really depends on how much you can push the car, and on how much data acquisition you plan on using to see how high temps get. Some people have reported 250+F temps just canyon carving in the summer in cali and texas.

An ace header, a tune, and e85 evaporates the torque dip, which honestly is not a big deal to begin with, since daily driving is always below it and racing is always above it.

The big question is will you miss the power of the STi? You have to be willing to drive the 86 like you stole it, and so many seem to be unwilling to do that. You rev it out and the car is just flat out awesome. But it is still 100 hp and even more torque down from an STi.

[JSube]

Thanks for the links, cjd, I will read. And no, strat, the STI is the highest hp car I've owned and the only AWD. Have had 2nd gen RX-7s, S2000 & 350Z, so I understand and can appreciate a momentum car with a great RWD chassis. I'd consider the new MX-5 if they made a coupe (need a "dog seat" which the BRZ has.) Also, like I said at first, intend to stay N/A. But who wouldn't like another 20hp in whatever they drive?

[JSube]

Originally Posted by why?

if you are going to track a lot then cooling is the biggest issue. The track group on facebook seems to like 25 row setrab units. And frankly with some of the under hood temps reported might as well try and figure out extra cooling for everything else at the same time too. But that really depends on how much you can push the car, and on how much data acquisition you plan on using to see how high temps get. Some people have reported 250+F temps just canyon carving in the summer in cali and texas.

An ace header, a tune, and e85 evaporates the torque dip, which honestly is not a big deal to begin with, since daily driving is always below it and racing is always above it.

The big question is will you miss the power of the STi? You have to be willing to drive the 86 like you stole it, and so many seem to be unwilling to do that. You rev it out and the car is just flat out awesome. But it is still 100 hp and even more torque down from an STi.

You have identified the issue I've been wrestling with for 6 months or so, Why. My car's power, post protune, is intoxicating and it's a truly conservative tune. But it has to be applied carefully among the "civilians" or you become a d-bag Then, on track you really have to watch your oil temps (I have a gauge.)
But I like a car that moves around on me and the STI is SO nailed down.
If you've seen the Chris Harris Drive episode with the gt86 from a few years ago, you'll understand my interest. And if you haven't, here's a link!
Oh, and yes, I would be more than happy to "drive it like I stole it." Fun's the whole point!

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUhLXvxlQR4&t=12s"]Toyota GT86 / Scion FR-S v Nissan 370Z v Used Porsche Cayman S - /CHRIS HARRIS ON CARS - YouTube[/ame]

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by JSube

Currently my DD is a lightly-modded ’15 STI bought new and tracked occasionally. But this year I’ll want to track it more (6-8 events) since the track car I’ve shared with a friend the past couple years won’t be available.

In talking BRZ with a shop last Fall that's a long-time Subaru specialist (racing, building, tuning & developing) I was told that reducing engine temps is the first consideration for track use, with a well-ducted oil cooler and high capacity radiator (Koyo or CSF, shop's not a fan of Mishi. at all off the street.) So the way I’m looking at it, I’d have to do the same mods to the STI and then I’d still be driving a car that’s 500lbs heavier than the BRZ and not RWD, which I have to admit I miss. Would be fun to have a dedicated track car, but that’s not in the cards.
They also said the torque crater can be largely eliminated by ELH, airflow mods and an Ecutek tune, because I'm only interested in keeping it N/A. Would def. consider a flex fuel kit at some point.
Thanks for any direction/advice/disagreement

This isn't a STI; all you need is an oil cooler and you're good to go to track. Race pads and fluids, if you're experienced.

Effectively zero experience with EJ based platforms carries over to a FRS/BRZ/86. Your Subaru specialist shop is no more experienced than any other performance shop, unless they have firsthand FA20 experience (which based on what they're telling you, they do not).

[Calvin27]

1. If you are experiencing the torque dip, then you are driving it wrong.
2. STI vs 86/brz is apple vs orange. The handling is different and the power is not remotely comparable.
3. Depends on what you mean by track. A lot of 86 folks run stock cars with no issues (20 min runs all day long), most have pad upgrades and that's it, ready to track the car. For reference my mate runs an MY16 sti with just brake pad upgrade and it doesn't explode either. Most people think mods are 'light' but have no real idea what this means when driving at track.

[ka-t_240]

I have had 3 sti's and tracked other peoples, as well as a handful of wrx's. The only time I miss my turbo awd cars is for daily use. Auto-x and road course, I have been in love with the brz.

[jmimac351]

I do ~30 track days / year and I need something reliable. The BRZ has been perfect so far. I don't like turbo cars for track use (notwithstanding those cars designed to handle it, which are very expensive). It's very difficult to manage the heat and reliability is a concern.

Your STi is a great DD. For the financial bath you'll take on swapping your 2015 STi to a BRZ (which won't be as good a daily driver), you could make a project out of finding a 2006 / 2007 NC Miata on Craigslist or eBay. I've seen them for under $7,000. Swap pads, fluid, and put a Hard Dog 4 point bar in it and head to the track. You'll have a car that is as fast as the BRZ, and you can afford to leave it on the side of the track on fire. Are you prepared to total your STi or a BRZ, financially? Will you be putting track insurance on it? A number of things need to be considered regarding what's in the cards...

You sound like a car guy with an itch. I'm there every few months. I wouldn't be so quick to get rid of the STi. Be realistic about your goals and ponder it. You could do a few events in the STi and observe other options at the track... talk to other guys, etc.

Good luck.

[Calvin27]

Buys an STI, wants another track car. Confused...

[smg1138]

OP you definitely have the right idea. A header, tune, and E85 are the key to unlocking this car's potential. It still won't have as much power as an STI, but it makes a huge difference. I seriously love my FR-S in this form and get bummed every time I have to re-tune for gasoline when making road trips out to the boonies. One day I'll probably put a blower on it, but for now, I'm very happy with my baby.

[JSube]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

This isn't a STI; all you need is an oil cooler and you're good to go to track. Race pads and fluids, if you're experienced.

Effectively zero experience with EJ based platforms carries over to a FRS/BRZ/86. Your Subaru specialist shop is no more experienced than any other performance shop, unless they have firsthand FA20 experience (which based on what they're telling you, they do not).

Thanks Mike, I'll look forward to reading your sticky, you're obviously very experienced with BRZs.
TurnIn Concepts is the shop and they bought a first year FA WRX for modding development. No shop BRZ I'm aware of but they have customers and their tuner has tuned a number of them.
They only advised I cool fluids for the track, which is also what you're saying. All that airflow/tuning business was me getting carried away because that's what I'd probably do- the second year, anyway, after I've learned something about the car.
Since I'd dive in with a performance package car the brakes would be ready for anything I'd need and I might even like the Sachs suspension upgrade. While I like to do mods like a lot of guys, I'm not interested in trying to re-engineer a well-designed car or throw money in the fire. This sounds promising!