Harrop TVS86 Owners Thread

[grumpysnapper]

Originally Posted by robv666

Hi thanks for the reply

I am trying to get a little bit more out of it without going to E85.
Did you run a 95mm before the 90mm?
Just wondering what sort of difference in power and torque?

Is it a noticeable difference ?


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I only ran the 95mm for the initial set up after I installed the unit, and then swapped over to the 90 pretty quickly.
I only have vague memories, but I doubt it was a huge difference, but it is a cheap and easy way to get the max amount of potential grunt, before needing to upgrade those other "extras".
I find E85 is great, but there are so many day to day hassles with both consumption rates and availability.... so I now only use it for "special" occasions.

[robv666]

I see that the Edelbrock Supercharger ships with a 3.25” Pulley as standard. This equates to 82mm and I think this is with standard injectors and pump also.

They both use the TVS1320 core so boost levels I assume would be close to each other on a given pulley size.

Would running an 85mm on 98RON with a Harrop be right on the limit of the standard injectors?


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[grumpysnapper]

Originally Posted by robv666

I see that the Edelbrock Supercharger ships with a 3.25” Pulley as standard. This equates to 82mm and I think this is with standard injectors and pump also.

They both use the TVS1320 core so boost levels I assume would be close to each other on a given pulley size.

Would running an 85mm on 98RON with a Harrop be right on the limit of the standard injectors?


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When I spoke with Harrop at the time (and a couple of trusted Harrop tuners), the general feeling was that 85mm was a small step too far without beginning to take those other factors into consideration... so they advised against it.
Now they might have been trying to be "responsibly conservative" in their thinking, but I figured if I'm asking for advice from the experts.... I should probably take it.
BTW you won't be disappointed with the power as it comes... its great fun!

[FR-S2GT86]

Originally Posted by robv666

I see that the Edelbrock Supercharger ships with a 3.25” Pulley as standard. This equates to 82mm and I think this is with standard injectors and pump also.

They both use the TVS1320 core so boost levels I assume would be close to each other on a given pulley size.

Would running an 85mm on 98RON with a Harrop be right on the limit of the standard injectors?


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If you're wanting to run the Harrop on the 85mm pulley, you should step up to 100RON. If that's not available, and neither is E85, you're going to have knock issues and poor engine performance. If you have E85 available to you and that's what you choose to burn with the 85mm pulley, you will need to increase fuel flow with a higher flow pump and at least slightly larger injectors.

The Deatchwerks 300 seems to be a popular pick when it comes to a higher flow pump, and there are a few more choices on injectors.

My personal set up will be the DW 300 pump, and Injector Dynamics 1050X injectors along with E85 and the 85mm pulley.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by botbs

Hi Guys,

I have asked in the other thread but no one seems to have an answer.

1) Anyone installed an intake snorkel to lower IAT or just keeping it stock?

2) My car is currently tuned for the SC with a Cat-back exhaust (stock header, stock front pipe). Is it "safe" to drive without a tune if I install a catless header with a high flow cat?

Thanks!

I haven't.

I wouldn't.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by robv666

Hi thanks for the reply

I am trying to get a little bit more out of it without going to E85.
Did you run a 95mm before the 90mm?
Just wondering what sort of difference in power and torque?

Is it a noticeable difference ?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The higher you go, the less noticeable it will be on pump gas. At some point, adding E85 will feel like you added a supercharger to your supercharger; ie, the jump from 95mm to 85mm is good, but the jump from 95mm to 85mm with E85 is like the jump going NA to 95mm.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by robv666

I see that the Edelbrock Supercharger ships with a 3.25” Pulley as standard. This equates to 82mm and I think this is with standard injectors and pump also.

They both use the TVS1320 core so boost levels I assume would be close to each other on a given pulley size.

Would running an 85mm on 98RON with a Harrop be right on the limit of the standard injectors?


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I thought the same thing back in the day, but there might be differences in efficiencies of the superchargers or something with their CARB tune that greatly detunes the setup. They might be running high duty cycles on the direct injectors.

The 85mm pulley should be used with 93+/98ron or E85. Even then, it may not be happy with the 93/98ron on hot days.

I needed injectors to run the 85mm pulley with my tuner.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by FR-S2GT86

If you're wanting to run the Harrop on the 85mm pulley, you should step up to 100RON. If that's not available, and neither is E85, you're going to have knock issues and poor engine performance. If you have E85 available to you and that's what you choose to burn with the 85mm pulley, you will need to increase fuel flow with a higher flow pump and at least slightly larger injectors.

The Deatchwerks 300 seems to be a popular pick when it comes to a higher flow pump, and there are a few more choices on injectors.

My personal set up will be the DW 300 pump, and Injector Dynamics 1050X injectors along with E85 and the 85mm pulley.

The fuel pump isn't the limiting factor at all at 85mm, especially with pump gas, but even with E85. I upgraded mine when I went with E85 for overkill insurance in case I went with more boost in the future (I did, 75mm pulley). It is the stock port injectors that are the limit--100%. The only way around it is to increase the duty cycle of the direct injectors, but there is a limit to how long the direct injectors can be open.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...14&postcount=6

[Bodalenko]

Originally Posted by FR-S2GT86

My personal set up will be the DW 300 pump, and Injector Dynamics 1050X injectors along with E85 and the 85mm pulley.

Just wondering what the drivability is like at low speeds with the ID1050? Harrop are of the opinion the DW700's are a better size, with flexfuel kit, because, in their experience, latency makes the 1050X's less attractive . They also think the OEM fuel pump is fine till you go to the 82mm pulley which I'm looking at. Even with that size pulley they still recommend the 700cc injectors.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Bodalenko

Just wondering what the drivability is like at low speeds with the ID1050? Harrop are of the opinion the DW700's are a better size, with flexfuel kit, because, in their experience, latency makes the 1050X's less attractive . They also think the OEM fuel pump is fine till you go to the 82mm pulley which I'm looking at. Even with that size pulley they still recommend the 700cc injectors.

low speeds or low load?

At very low load, all the driving is on DI.

The moment where it transitions to DI + PI, with minimal PI, is when the 1050X really shines.

[UNREAL]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

--------------



If you are referring to engine coolant then it should be maintained to factory specs. Higher IATs from FI could increase heat buildup in the block, but more significantly, high combustion pressures lead to higher temperatures, which will most definitely heat the block. Maxing out the cooling system on the car in a high duty cycle application would mean the engine/coolant will overheat, but it is likely that the oil will have much higher temps at that point. Monitoring both oil and coolant temps are good, but if you have to pick one, I would monitor oil temps because oil takes longer to heat up and is harder to cool down. Also, oil pressures drop when oil temperatures go up, which is also a critical metric. If your oil temps are fine then your cooling system is likely healthy. Also, if the coolant system is overheating then you can remove heat by improving the cooling system through a larger coolant radiator, but it would be more important to add an oil cooler. By cooling the oil, you are removing heat from the system, which may remove the stress on the coolant. It is a matter of how do you want to increase the thermal capacity of the system in the most efficient and effective way.



--------------



Cliff notes:



Intercooler temps aren't known without a sensor, so you may want to follow IATs, which depend on many factors, but for max power, the goal is to not exceed 15-20 degrees Celsius over ambient temperature.



Engine coolant should be the same as stock. Oil temperatures are more critical and should be managed first.

First of all I can't thank you enough for the educational and detailed reply
TBH I don't know what temperature I'm measuring but I guess it is the coolant temp.
can I measure the oil temp? Through the OBD interface type of guage? (P3 Guage)

I already have a bigger radiator + built in oil cooler
and I'm maxing out at 100c°
BTW what are the average oem coolant/oil temperature range?

Many thanks
Unreal

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[UNREAL]

Originally Posted by Kiske

I'm a fan of the fullblown rad+shroud+spal fans combo. For the price it is fantastic upgrade that directly bolts in with oem condensor and harrop intercooler while giving you greater clearance infront of the engine.

I love your setup the only issue is that I already invested in Jackson Racing 2in1 radiator +oil cooler
The questions are:
1- How can I fit better fan+Shroud to fit my setup?
2- what are the oem temp ranges for coolant/oil?

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[UNREAL]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

CSG fan shroud + fans.

It'll be MUCH louder than stock, closer to what you hear out of a ferrari or lambo, but will control your temps better.

Have your tuner lower your fan activation temp as well.

Many cars have a gulf spec version with enhanced factory cooling, but the 86 is not one of them.

Thanks Mike for your feedback, I have couple of questions though

1- Will it fit my setup?
2- Is it plug and play instal or does it require tuning?
3- What are the acceptable oem temp ranges for coolant/oil.

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[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by UNREAL

Thanks Mike for your feedback, I have couple of questions though

1- Will it fit my setup?
2- Is it plug and play instal or does it require tuning?
3- What are the acceptable oem temp ranges for coolant/oil.

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1. unless you have a nameless/cosworth header, yes.
2. it requires wiring. it does not require tuning
3. for this car, I'd say maximum temps are 225F coolant and 260F oil. Keep in mind if you see these temps, you're likely going to have thermal runaway and see higher temp anyways. These are MAXIMUM temps. You really should see a max of 212F coolant and 250F oil, 100C/120C