2015 86CUP rules - **DRAFT** Please provide feedback!

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by D K

Everything looks great in the rules, but would it be possible to make them more simple?

I let one of my friends read the rules who is more of a street guy and the first thing was: wow, these are complex.

Originally Posted by rb6freak

I'm just providing honest feedback that you asked for. The point system could use a little work.

I don't think this is really a feedback thread. It's "here are the rules" and "no" to all suggestions.

[CSG David]

Mike and the other 86 Cup committee members have been doing a great job going over hundreds of hours of data from our datalogger on different cars and setups to come up with the rule set. On top of that, they spend countless sleepless nights to come up with rule sets. Not everybody will be happy because it doesn't tailor your car into a specific group, but the whole point is to normalize setups. NASA does the same thing as well.

In S2k Challenge, which has been a huge success in terms of equalizing the playing field, the points were continuously refined each year. Keep in mind, S2k Challenge has had over 10 years to develop its system.

S2k Chalengers who are unhappy with the point system will write a proper evidence base argument. Sometimes the rules change. Sometimes they don't. The feedback is generous. In this case, I stay out of the rule making process. The most important thing is getting people to come out and have fun. The reality is, a stock class car can provide some competition to mod class car with the proper driving techniques. You just need to figure out how to get there.

[jflogerzi]

Originally Posted by rb6freak

I'm just providing honest feedback that you asked for. The point system could use a little work. Not going to make changes to my setup.

I just don't believe a catless front pipe provides the same gains as a catless header. Leaving it at that.

agreed

[D K]

Totally agree.

Im just trying to pass along some experience from setting up the initial S2K rule set.

D

Originally Posted by CSG David

Mike and the other 86 Cup committee members have been doing a great job going over hundreds of hours of data from our datalogger on different cars and setups to come up with the rule set. On top of that, they spend countless sleepless nights to come up with rule sets. Not everybody will be happy because it doesn't tailor your car into a specific group, but the whole point is to normalize setups. NASA does the same thing as well.

In S2k Challenge, which has been a huge success in terms of equalizing the playing field, the points were continuously refined each year. Keep in mind, S2k Challenge has had over 10 years to develop its system.

S2k Chalengers who are unhappy with the point system will write a proper evidence base argument. Sometimes the rules change. Sometimes they don't. The feedback is generous. In this case, I stay out of the rule making process. The most important thing is getting people to come out and have fun. The reality is, a stock class car can provide some competition to mod class car with the proper driving techniques. You just need to figure out how to get there.

[raul]

I think the rules are completely usable and should be addressed in the case where 2 or more people in the same class are close.

[MyRx]

FWIW NorCal used the same rules for the 2014 season and going forward with the 2015 season. Not every single driver has agreed with the rules, still don't, even with the 2015 rules changing to accommodate more mods. But bottomline is the same, we're having fun. For months now, Mike has asked for feedback and he always has evidence to support the rules. Try nitpicking one section or one mod(s) and we start to get out of the realm of practical generalization. It starts to become a not-fun conversation. Is it a one-way street? I don't think so, as honest feedback/criticism are going both ways. And rules have changed to accommodate the changes to our cars.

2014 was successful for NorCal and we are looking forward to 2015. Individuals carrying that much dislike with the rules are keeping clear of this. So for the majority, we are abiding to the same rules not so much for [mods'] relative cost to its particular gain but more so to just get out there and have fun with like-cars and drivers.

[justint5387]

Dang, a car with full bolt-ons, coilovers, 9" wheels and 245 tires have to run in limited class.

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by solidONE

So... Drop in filter free? How about I put a TRD sticker on my aFe panel filter? haha

I already tried, with a "proper evidence base [sic] argument," to get them to change that. As you can see from their lack of an evidential argument in response to me, they don't seem to care.

[DeliciousTuning]

So for "e85" I assume this follows the government regulated miniumum legal limits of 51% (use to be 68%) ethanol. If you happen to be running 50% ethanol that is not legally E85 so therefore no points correct?

http://ethanolproducer.com/articles/...-to-51-percent

This would put my supercharged BRZ with E50 in street class with coilovers but on stock rims and tires and a half point to work with.

Thanks,
William Knose
Delicious Tuning

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by DeliciousTuning

So for "e85" I assume this follows the government regulated miniumum legal limits of 51% (use to be 68%) ethanol. If you happen to be running 50% ethanol that is not legally E85 so therefore no points correct?

http://ethanolproducer.com/articles/...-to-51-percent

This would put my supercharged BRZ with E50 in street class with coilovers but on stock rims and tires and a half point to work with.

Thanks,
William Knose
Delicious Tuning

We could clarify it to be any fuel that is not 91 or 100 octane pump fuel...

Will you be joining us this year?

[juliog]

Rules are still being updated.

After long consideration and a great KBBQ (thx @ImperiousRex!), the board has agreed that all drop-in OE replacement filters should be free (0 pts).

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by renfield90

I already tried, with a "proper evidence base [sic] argument," to get them to change that. As you can see from their lack of an evidential argument in response to me, they don't seem to care.

Never assume this.

Just because we don't respond on the spot doesn't mean we don't care, there's more than one way to look at your point.

It was decided on Monday night to update the rules along with a couple of other small things.

-alex

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by justint5387

Dang, a car with full bolt-ons, coilovers, 9" wheels and 245 tires have to run in limited class.

My car with a stock engine is ending up in Limited Class...

OS Giken diff
STi front lip
coilovers
front camber plate
245 tires
9" wide wheels

4.125 total points.
I could take off the STi front lip at the track to remain in Street Class... we'll see if I'm competitive enough to warrant a reclassification.

-alex

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by mav1178

Never assume this.

Just because we don't respond on the spot doesn't mean we don't care, there's more than one way to look at your point.

It was decided on Monday night to update the rules along with a couple of other small things.

-alex

I'm glad you made this change. I suggest you improve the way you interact with your (potential) customers. "No, just swap your filter" is very different than "we'll discuss it at our next meeting."

One implies that a process is underway, one implies that you're telling me to go pound sand. See the difference?

I won't be joining you guys, but best of luck with your series.