Video: Toyota GR86 SPIED for the First Time!

[JesseG]

Those floor mats are rad!! And check out the side bolsters on those front seats, aggressive!
Wasn’t the original AE86 a hatchback? That eliminates the small trunk opening issue.


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[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by JesseG

Those floor mats are rad!! And check out the side bolsters on those front seats, aggressive!
Wasn’t the original AE86 a hatchback? That eliminates the small trunk opening issue.


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Came in both hatch and trunk variants.

[JesseG]

Originally Posted by TheDonEffect

I get what you're saying, but the point I was trying to make was that the AE86 was practical and cheap, and was therefore very low key. The current 86 isn't particularly practical (although reasonably so) nor relatively cheap. Why that's the case is what you're addressing, which I largely agree with. Nonetheless, the 86 is more Celica than AE86.

Perhaps the real solution here is to make the Corolla RWD...

Toyota has had many chances to make a really cool version of the Corolla, especially the new model on the TNG platform. The last fun Corolla was the XRS, I had one and it really scooted. Mine was an auto, and I was even lucky to find that one. That chassis wasn’t great, so the handling was very average. They have an opportunity to make a really fun Corolla.
I’m not sure I would say the 86 is more like the Celica. I think the Scion TC was the spiritual successor to the Celica. Anyway, Toyota can make really fun performance versions of their cars if they want to. Most of the time they don’t.


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[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by JesseG

Toyota has had many chances to make a really cool version of the Corolla, especially the new model on the TNG platform. The last fun Corolla was the XRS, I had one and it really scooted. Mine was an auto, and I was even lucky to find that one. That chassis wasn’t great, so the handling was very average. They have an opportunity to make a really fun Corolla.
I’m not sure I would say the 86 is more like the Celica. I think the Scion TC was the spiritual successor to the Celica. Anyway, Toyota can make really fun performance versions of their cars if they want to. Most of the time they don’t.

Wait a bit. It looks that GR Corolla is coming to the US ...

[JesseG]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Wait a bit. It looks that GR Corolla is coming to the US ...

I reeeallly hope it does!!! I don’t think we are getting the GR Yaris.


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[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Wait a bit. It looks that GR Corolla is coming to the US ...

I heard it was a while ago. Still FWD, not AWD like the Yaris.

[TheDonEffect]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

I heard it was a while ago. Still FWD, not AWD like the Yaris.

Correct, that's what I read as well.

[Swift]

Nikitopo has it right guys. This is about brand awareness while making it fun to drive...makes you want to buy a car. Alot of people in the cities do not even own cars....but a weekend cruiser??


A BRZ is not fighting against WRX sales. Why? Because the money is still made for Subaru! They don't care which one you buy! People here have even said they wanted something faster and tried the WRX and didn't like it. Now you have a risk of that person leaving the brand for something else.


My guess:
Subaru has two choices FI and non , or TRD option to install FI
They even may keep the 2.0L around



Toyota will only offer NA engine to not compete with 4cyl Supra because handling and horsepower is to close for their comfort and both 2drs. This is not the same as the BRZ and WRX example I used above.

[HKz]

Lol, they ain't making separate variants smh so for people to continue to get their hopes up is sad...the supra and z4 essentially share the exact same powertrains for a car that costs double the 86 but ya think that Toyota and Subaru would make separate NA and turbo variants for their cheap sports car.. test mules have no intercooler, pretty much same brakes and doesn't have wide tires, turbo 86 will never happen folks.

[Lantanafrs2]

The car was never designed for forced induction. If it was, it wouldn't be as sleek looking. Heat extraction and proper packaging would require a little more real estate

[JesseG]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

The car was never designed for forced induction. If it was, it wouldn't be as sleek looking. Heat extraction and proper packaging would require a little more real estate

Well, there is plenty of extra space in the engine bay. The FA20 is fairly small. I’m not saying they wouldn’t have to get a little creative, but it’s possible. The hood is very low I agree, and it looks very sleek. I still think there is room for a small FMIC, and required turbo parts. Now if they can make all that work to manufacturer specs is another matter.


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[Dzmitry]

Originally Posted by TheDonEffect

No worries, and like you this is just my opinion, but let me expand it a little further as you raised some good questions.

A car is designed around, among other things, the power it's intended to produce. So to those who want a turbo engine and think that that they could just make the current car as is and just throw in a 260hp engine in it, it just wouldn't work for the OEMs, although boy I wish they would. Reason being is that if it has more power, it needs more tire, more tire requires a different suspension setup, which may require more bracing, etc etc. Then you need more brakes, more speed inevitably needs more cooling, etc etc. And that's even before we start talking about crash safety. It really is a slippery slope to weight gain. Look at all the super and hyper cars out there, with ridiculous budgets and very niche standards they need to achieve, and even then they still weigh well north of 3000lbs, even closer to 4000lbs sometimes. It's why the GMD T50 is so special. Caymans are mid engined and two seaters, and cost 4x as much, and arent any lighter. Also consider that the Type R weighs over 200lbs more than an EX-T hatchback (both are turbo so not all the weight came from the engine changes per se).

So my solution was to offer a detuned engine, so that the car can still be designed to a lower power target, and you don't have to mess with the current formula too much. And why would it cost anymore? The FA20 in the twins is a dedicated configuration for the twins. It's more rule than exception that an OEM takes an engine and configures it to a specific model, alot of times to a specific trim as well, so configuring or detuning an engine is not unfeasible, rather it's very common.

And having a lower power target can also help them appease the current 86 faithful who want a more NA feeling engine. They can tune it for no lag, instant power, with a small turbo and tune accordingly for instance. Consider that the turbo engine in the Accord is a detuned version of the Type R engine, and also consider that the engine in the Si and EX-T are all different configurations, even different displacements to the Type R. So yes, it can absolutely be done.

And I've driven my share of modern turbo engines, I'm sure it could appease the majority of the people who seem to love the FA20, and for those who they cant satisfy, they'll make up for with new people.

So you captured, mostly, the magic of the original car, but now you also caught the attention and perhaps satisfy the crowd who's been clamoring for a turbo engine. Sure, they'll see the modest 210, 220, whatever hp rating, but they'll quickly learn that it's the 260hp FA24F out of the Ascent, and it's perhaps just a tune away from unlocking all of that power... and more.

And then you also start stealing sales from Ecoboost mustang buyers, perhaps even some buyers that went and bout a 240i, 340i, etc. And now you can really develop some interesting special editions, like a true special edition, with track spec equipment and a factory significant power bump.

Additionally, now that they've recouped alot of the development cost of the 86, by just doing a mild update on the platform itself they can save some money that could go towards putting in the Ascent engine.

I believe I am in full understanding of what you're implying/saying, I just don't think it to be at all feasible. You made comparisons of cars that sell in huge bulk that are capable of doing such a thing. This is far more of a unique car. For them to put the time and money into getting a turbo FA24, going through all the required testing and what not, and then doing the additional work of de-tuning it just seems silly. With all that incorporated, the price of the car would need to increase fairly significantly as well. Though again, I fully get your intentions or opinion on why it would be great, in terms of likely scenarios out there, I think that this would be least likely. As for the idea behind it, it certainly sounds attractive.

[Dirty Harry]

Originally Posted by TheDonEffect

No worries, and like you this is just my opinion, but let me expand it a little further as you raised some good questions.

A car is designed around, among other things, the power it's intended to produce. So to those who want a turbo engine and think that that they could just make the current car as is and just throw in a 260hp engine in it, it just wouldn't work for the OEMs, although boy I wish they would. Reason being is that if it has more power, it needs more tire, more tire requires a different suspension setup, which may require more bracing, etc etc. Then you need more brakes, more speed inevitably needs more cooling, etc etc. And that's even before we start talking about crash safety. It really is a slippery slope to weight gain. Look at all the super and hyper cars out there, with ridiculous budgets and very niche standards they need to achieve, and even then they still weigh well north of 3000lbs, even closer to 4000lbs sometimes. It's why the GMD T50 is so special. Caymans are mid engined and two seaters, and cost 4x as much, and arent any lighter. Also consider that the Type R weighs over 200lbs more than an EX-T hatchback (both are turbo so not all the weight came from the engine changes per se).

So my solution was to offer a detuned engine, so that the car can still be designed to a lower power target, and you don't have to mess with the current formula too much. And why would it cost anymore? The FA20 in the twins is a dedicated configuration for the twins. It's more rule than exception that an OEM takes an engine and configures it to a specific model, alot of times to a specific trim as well, so configuring or detuning an engine is not unfeasible, rather it's very common.

And having a lower power target can also help them appease the current 86 faithful who want a more NA feeling engine. They can tune it for no lag, instant power, with a small turbo and tune accordingly for instance. Consider that the turbo engine in the Accord is a detuned version of the Type R engine, and also consider that the engine in the Si and EX-T are all different configurations, even different displacements to the Type R. So yes, it can absolutely be done.

And I've driven my share of modern turbo engines, I'm sure it could appease the majority of the people who seem to love the FA20, and for those who they cant satisfy, they'll make up for with new people.

So you captured, mostly, the magic of the original car, but now you also caught the attention and perhaps satisfy the crowd who's been clamoring for a turbo engine. Sure, they'll see the modest 210, 220, whatever hp rating, but they'll quickly learn that it's the 260hp FA24F out of the Ascent, and it's perhaps just a tune away from unlocking all of that power... and more.

And then you also start stealing sales from Ecoboost mustang buyers, perhaps even some buyers that went and bout a 240i, 340i, etc. And now you can really develop some interesting special editions, like a true special edition, with track spec equipment and a factory significant power bump.

Additionally, now that they've recouped alot of the development cost of the 86, by just doing a mild update on the platform itself they can save some money that could go towards putting in the Ascent engine.

Sounds like you want a modern version of an S15. They were priced about the same as a GC8 WRX back in the late 90’s early 00’s. The Australian version had 147kW detuned from the Japanese version of 184kW and weighed about as much as a twin. I rode in a friend’s one years ago when he had it, a lot of fun.

But with safety, emissions and other considerations that weren’t around 20 years ago, I’d assume a 2 litre turbo in the twin would weigh more. But then again I’m not a mechanical engineer.

That was the golden era for Japanese sports cars.

https://www.whichcar.com.au/features...sx-new-vs-used

[JesseG]

Most Japanese auto companies during that time had extra money for fun projects. And even then cars like the Supra Turbo didn’t sell very well. Or the 300ZX TT or RX7 Turbo.
It wasn’t until years later they have been appreciated more. Toyota wanted to go conservative with the engine in the twins, and I can’t blame them. I’m sure it was an expensive project to undertake, even with the partnership with Subaru.
If the 2nd gen has something like the FA24 with more torque through the powerband, I think that will equal an even better car. All that’s lacking from the twins is more torque.


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